Cookies Disclaimer

I agree Our site saves small pieces of text information (cookies) on your device in order to authenticate logins, deliver better content and provide statistical analysis. You can adjust your browser settings to prevent our site from using cookies, but doing so will prevent some aspects of the site from functioning properly.

Before the Tens of Thousands.

Bob
Lighter armors currently have artificially high resistances to balance out the lack of enchanting ability. They'd get rebalanced so that they'd get the bulk of their resistances from enchantments instead.
Decius
Duffy Swiftshadow
Well they are less effective by percentage anyways, what's really misleading is that they get even weaker. The percentage of my HP that is healed by a particular spell goes down as my HP goes up, Epro reduces that even further as I drift away. Which means I can only use T3 expendables to achieve the same kind of result, which is more like standing in place than advancing. It does to T2 what everyone complained happened to T1, it's useless as soon as you can get better.

It ends up discouraging build variety if you can't match most of the words. A lot of expendables are designed so you can mix across some classes. For example a bunch of Fighter stuff has words that match Rogue Kits, and vice versa. The issue is that Epro makes this cross building even less effective than just not matching all the keywords. Even wearing T2, I only match 1/2 the words on a T2 Fighter Expendable, but because of EPro it's 50% weaker ON TOP of already being 50% weaker from lack of full match Keywords. If I upgrade to T3 it's worse, you basically need to upgrade to T3 versions which is way more restrictive. This strongly pushes cross building into non viable territory.

Wizards and Clerics have a lot more expendables available, but a lot of cross school/domain options are 50% or less matches. They are too weak with the double reduction, even though everything else about the system implies you should mix and match to some degree it's actually a hidden trap.
It's not "weaker on top of being weaker". It does less hit point damage, because you match fewer keywords and therefore have lower base damage. It has lower secondary effects, because it matches fewer attack keywords than the defender matches armor keywords. You might have a lower attack bonus, because most rouge attacks use light melee and most fighter expendables use heavy melee or ranged. You shouldn't have a lower attack roll, because attack roll is based on the tier of your implement.

Effect protection does not change damage. Damage boni do not adjust secondary effects.
Decius
Bringslite of Staalgard
Duffy Swiftshadow
@Wolf

Something to clarify, EPOW/EPRO does not effect damage from attacks, it only applies to effects (the DoTs are the only damage it effects).
It seems to affect damage HEALED fairly well. At least it seems that way. Is that a misconception also?
Heal is a secondary effect, not negative damage. So are Regenerating and Fast Healing; Heal, being instant, has its numerical value adjusted by 10% per Effect Difference, while the timed buffs have their duration (but not their effect during their duration) reduced by the same percentage.
Decius
Duffy Swiftshadow
I guess I'm a bit confused because attacks work almost exactly like TT.

You roll a die, you add your BAB, you add your Weapon Specific Bonus, Misc Bonuses like Precision or Buffs (stand in for feat bonuses, enchantment bonuses, situational bonuses, etc… ) and compare that against a target number which is made up of a base value and bonuses applied via gear and training. In fact, I would say PFO is far more linear that tabletop AC is as that is capped for the most part (some classes can get around it). The best you can often do isn't much different than your starting AC plus eventually access to magic item version, whereas BAB scales every level and has far more ways to add numbers to it.

Epow/Epro is weird, but it only applies to effects so that doesn't impact direct damage capabilities.
I find the defenses of PFO to be much more constrained than Tabletop. 10+ability score mod+armor (+enhancement bonus to armor AC)+shield (+enhancement bonus to shield AC)+dodge(s)+deflection+natural armor (+enhancement bonus to natural armor AC)+morale+luck+sacred+profane+circumstance+size+untyped is a lot of ways to boost AC compared to reflex defense+armor keywords+defensive feats+buffs.
Giorgio
@All,

Reading 10+ pages of combat math/systems I cant even begin to comprehend is slightly depressing, and REALY should have been discussed in a separate thread, as I feel it totally derailed what the OP was about.

@Bob,

I would like to read your view point on the OPs topic of this thread (Page 1, Post #1), as I too share many of his concerns/observations.
First Elder Durin Steelforge; Leader of Forgeholm; Founder of Steelforge Engineering Company

PM Giorgo on Paizo Forums
PM Admin George on Commonwealth of the Free Highlands
Bob
Giorgio
@Bob,

I would like to read your view point on the OPs topic of this thread (Page 1, Post #1), as I too share many of his concerns/observations.

The short answer is that while we do plan to do a bit more work than is explicitly listed on the roadmap through Open Enrollment (scheduled for March 2018 ), there's a limit to what we can commit to during that time. There is some flexibility built into the last two milestones to tackle a few small tasks that turn out to be higher priority than we'd originally thought, but we don't want to commit to particular items at this time. The point of leaving that flexibility until closer to the end is to let us reevaluate once all the planned work is done, since priorities tend to shift as new features go in.

In terms of some of the specific items mentioned in the OP, relatively simple things like making "/" open the chat window are the most likely to get included before OE. Line of sight is also something we're actually going to start experimenting with as part of EE 14 (September 2017). Falling damage may also be a relatively straight-forward thing to implement, though much like line of sight, the issue is less about the ease of implementing the feature and more about all the potential consequences of implementing them, particularly the possibility that additional features will be required to keep line of sight and/or falling damage from being more aggravating than amusing.

Logging out with quitting is problematic. We had that in before and it caused all kinds of crashes. It's fixable, but would likely be a lot of work to do right.

More mousewheel scrolling is probably fairly easy, but we tend to have to add that kind of thing individually to each scrollable piece of the UI, so it can be time-consuming and can take a while to track down all the possible cases.

Footsteps is mostly problematic because we're not really in a good position to do polished audio work at the moment. Cole and I haven't really worked with the audio system before, so we'd need a fair amount of ramp-up time just to get started. Adding sounds in a balanced way also tends to take a lot of trial and error, something we don't really have the resources for right now.

Water is something we've got some ideas on, but ultimately it needs to get added to the world grid by grid, and there are a lot of grids. It's also a lot easier to add to grids that are at only one elevation, and has to be hand-shaped on any grids with cliff edges. It's possible we'll be able to add some more water, but doing so would likely be pretty time-consuming, so we have to balance that against all the other work we could do instead.

Overall, we feel that the items listed in the roadmap will put us in a good position to market the game to a wider audience, but we admit that there will still be lots of rough edges for us to keep working on. We'll try to take care of what rough edges we can while we're working on these scheduled deliveries, and we'll polish as much as we can as we get to the final two deliveries, but the only specific items we can commit to at this point are those listed in the roadmap.
Giorgio
@Bob,

Thank you for that very detailed reply, I/we greatly appreciate it! smile

First Elder Durin Steelforge; Leader of Forgeholm; Founder of Steelforge Engineering Company

PM Giorgo on Paizo Forums
PM Admin George on Commonwealth of the Free Highlands
Wolf of Rathglen
Is the Roadmap available for viewing by players somewhere so we can look at it instead of bugging you; knowing either when our issue will be taken care of or that you've decided other aspects are higher priority in the next few months?
Hammerfall: Like a waterfall, but tougher.
Giorgio
Wolf of Rathglen
Is the Roadmap available for viewing by players somewhere so we can look at it instead of bugging you; knowing either when our issue will be taken care of or that you've decided other aspects are higher priority in the next few months?

It is under the "Blog" tab on the main page:

The Road Forward
First Elder Durin Steelforge; Leader of Forgeholm; Founder of Steelforge Engineering Company

PM Giorgo on Paizo Forums
PM Admin George on Commonwealth of the Free Highlands
Wolf of Rathglen
Thanks! I missed that on hiatus.
Hammerfall: Like a waterfall, but tougher.
 
You must be logged into an enrolled account to post