Cookies Disclaimer

I agree Our site saves small pieces of text information (cookies) on your device in order to authenticate logins, deliver better content and provide statistical analysis. You can adjust your browser settings to prevent our site from using cookies, but doing so will prevent some aspects of the site from functioning properly.

Before the Tens of Thousands.

Tyncale
It seems to me that before the combat in PFO was thoroughly tested, funding fell through and the population plummeted. We are still left with these new-fangled and untested mechanics. You seem to think the system is flawed at its core: that could be. I will leave that for Bob. I am definately not a fan of the Keywords myself, it is obvious to me that skills, utilities, Spells and Feats needed more testing and iterations.

About the XP: I like how I do not have to race for XP to be at the top, of *anything*. This way I can at least be somewhat competitive at some point. The amount of grinding some people can do is just mind boggling: in a PvP game, folks will go at even greater lengths to accumulate that XP and thus power.

Some may find it more fair, that someone who works "hard" for their xp, i.e. grinds 24/7, has more power. I think everyone paying 15 bucks for the same amount of XP=characterpower is a better way: and *then* people can still kick my ass because I am not an adept PvP-er. Which is fine by me, and exactly why I would concentrate on Crafting, transport, harvesting, Building.

We talk about the Alpha Aristocracy. But I prefer those then the "poopsock" Aristocracy, who will play 24/7 to gain that advantage. I do not believe one bit that it is their player-skill that will earn them this xp. These are still games we are talking about. That means the formula "25 functioning braincells + time invested + dirty sock= more powah" is at work here. Same for PvE and PvP games. I am talking strictly about character power here. Not about the true Power that good PvP skills and smart, social (meta) gameplay will give you in PFO (and Eve I would think).

I prefer the subscription model. smile if it will fly, I do not know. There must be ways to adress the unfairness that is perceived by having this (rather small) subscription-aristocracy. I have unsubbed 7 of my 8 accounts, they only have like 8 months xp on them, and I still would not hesitate one bit to activate them if the game picks up. I thought I would forever regret unsubbing them later, but no. It does not really matter. If the game is fun, the XP will come. But I agree that there are a lot of people who would be chomping at their bits with this game and grinding their teeth at the inability to go on a full on, 24/7 XP grind. Is that the crowd this game needs? Maybe.

Disclaimer: I sometimes misread things so if I did that again then disregard this post.
Regalo Harnoncourt, Leader of the River Kingdoms Trading Company, High Council of Callambea.
This is the character that I am playing almost 100% of the time. (Tyncale is my Sage/Mage)
Wolf of Rathglen
You're right about anything after the actual Great Cataclysm, but Epow was quickly cobbled together and implemented at the height of War of Towers and Foreverwar, when game activity was highest. It must have been viewed as a quick blanket solution rather than taking the time to actually fix unbalanced skills misdeveloped in the first place, but it just renders strategy ineffective against a longer subscriber (the major fear of potential new players), redundant to previous mechanics, and introduces major problems for every player to band-aid some corner case small problems.
Hammerfall: Like a waterfall, but tougher.
Midnight
I still see PFO as Eve-Online with swords.

The only real disqualifier is how achievement gates negate the utility of XP over time for casual players.

PFO's achievement gates seem designed to make people NOT want many accounts, once they see how the system works. That strikes me as counter-productive for a subscription game.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
You are a Troll
Achievement gates hardly take any time at all to hit. Even very casual play over a month or so kits them fairly easily.

For the record, I happen to like the keyword matching Epow/Epro system. Its complicated, intricate, but interesting and engaging. Who wants every spell or attack sold by everyone to be useful by anyone. It helps give spellcasters different flavor, especially at higher levels, and real difficult decisions about where to spend two months worth of xp, how can I find a copy of the expendable that perfectly matches my Keywords etc. I am still using the same attacks I used at T1 level, and they are still effective. Some are level 6, some are level 4 or 5. I really don't get what your huge bug-a-boo about it all is Wolf.
Midnight
You are a Troll
Achievement gates hardly take any time at all to hit. Even very casual play over a month or so kits them fairly easily.

An Eve player can go somewhere with no internet for 6 months and come back to an improved character.

But you really start to feel the difference when you have lots of accounts.

The guy with the most accounts in the game used to contradict my posts here telling us that gating wasn't an issue for him. Then he got banned for all the duping he was doing. Yeah, those refining and crafting gates were probably a cinch with unlimited materials instantly created in town.

Heck, achievement gates might have even motivated his duping.

(I'm not saying that duping is a reason to eliminate gates, I'm just pointing out how disingenuous that guy's testimony was on the issue of gating lots of accounts).
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Tyncale
I would like to add a bit in favor of the "XP for subscription" model. The "subscription-veterans", those that have subbed for a long time, may be a deterrent for new players, but I think this goes just as wel, if not more for those "grind-veterans" who are usually very hardcore, extremely active players.

The thing is, even though there is some hard grind-time involved in creating these Characters, players like this can crank out such characters constantly, and on a whim. This has the danger of "throwaway" characters that do not care about reputation and can be discarded much more easily then characters that have 2 years of subscription-xp on them.

Not saying that these subscription characters never will go rogue/griefer, because some will. But I think the model in PFO does give the average character more intrinsic value to the owner and overall evens that playing field better. I even dare to think it may make for an overal more civil environment, though that does not have to stand in the way of serious PvP.

NB: Wolf, I had forgotten that Epow was a later addition, it may indeed need revisiting. I leave the numbercrunching to the people that can do this much better. I just think fighting with my Bow sucks currently, I am afraid that is my level of contribution on this particular subject.

smile
Midnight, I am not sure about the gates. It is indeed counterproductive to selling more subs, that is for sure. But I think Ryan and Lisa are still very much on the idea that you should *play* before you can use your XP. Especially Ryan was very afraid of the "Instant Character": a character that had been accumulating XP for years silently, and then suddenly gets deployed in a some crucial role, with all the XP put into what is needed then and there, tipping the balance.

I never really saw this, I can not remember any particular situation. Something like, a city is being Sieged because they *seemed* like an easy target, but then all of a sudden they activate 12 Sleeper accounts with 2 million XP each, instantly training them to a Role that is used best for Siege Defense??

I never could really see it. I think it is a bit non sensical. However you could wonder if you want to have a thriving market of "Sleeper Characters" where some Whale who sees his Town under Siege buys up 20 of them, gives them to his friends and voila, instant Level 20 Fighters x20.

Ok, more money in Paizo's pocket, I still do not see anything wrong with that, let's do away with the Gates. smile
Regalo Harnoncourt, Leader of the River Kingdoms Trading Company, High Council of Callambea.
This is the character that I am playing almost 100% of the time. (Tyncale is my Sage/Mage)
Flari-Merchant
What I remember reading about epro and epow was, I think it was Lee, saying "we will be turning on the epro/epow system". As if it had been planned and was worked on already. That gave me the impression that it was a planned inclusion. I could be completely wrong with this memory.

I will state that I think it is a real extra complication and goes against intuitive play and progression. I imagine that taking it out and the required overhaul of the system is likely well beyond the scope of what can be done ATM.

Two plus years skilled players vs new players. Our minor numbers should not be an issue for hordes of new players that have a lick of sense, but single comments can run havoc in internet communities and alter the thinking of Soooo many.
We are really only a few and would be buried by masses of new and determined players but the reason that they will not see that is because of the real facts that we are all appearing invincible and we are all entrenched in the Places of Power.
Duffy Swiftshadow
While I think the EPoW vs EPro thing is a bit overly complex (I understand why) it's not inherently a problem for offensive task because it does what is expected: better defensive gear protects you from things, thus your tier 2 spell doesn't hurt a tier 3 person as much as a t2, that is a reasonable expectation concerning power curves and gear, the awkwardness is in how that gets represented, not that it's happening.

I think it's a far bigger problem and way more confusing that beneficial effects get weaker for better geared characters.
Midnight
Duffy Swiftshadow
I think it's a far bigger problem and way more confusing that beneficial effects get weaker for better geared characters.

this.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Flari-Merchant
Midnight
Duffy Swiftshadow
I think it's a far bigger problem and way more confusing that beneficial effects get weaker for better geared characters.

this.
Yes. This is the central problem. Being harder to harm because you wear better gear makes some sense at least. Though it could be that it is too hard to harm vs better gear.
 
You must be logged into an enrolled account to post