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Haven't heard much...

Flari-Merchant
About this yet:
Story Quest for New Players

•Give new players a quest storyline to follow that offers a more structured introduction to the world.

This seems like a fairly involved project. Is there anything that we players can do to help with this? Stuff like voluntary guide services, opinion input, ideas… Anything that we can do to add a bit of "Old Veteran Support" in helping players get through the new quests by trimming the coding down and adding a "live player" touch to the task list?
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
Bob
Bringslite of Staalgard
About this yet:
Story Quest for New Players

•Give new players a quest storyline to follow that offers a more structured introduction to the world.

This seems like a fairly involved project. Is there anything that we players can do to help with this? Stuff like voluntary guide services, opinion input, ideas… Anything that we can do to add a bit of "Old Veteran Support" in helping players get through the new quests by trimming the coding down and adding a "live player" touch to the task list?

This will be like an extended version of one of the training tutorials, with a mix of NPC's offering advice on general feats to learn and then asking you to go places or kill things that are steadily tougher to handle, with the goal of giving players who like a little more of a structured questline to follow things to do during the first month of play as they get to Tier 2. The feat advice will tend to be pretty generalized and appropriate for pretty much any adventuring character, along the lines of "Train Base Attack Bonus 2" or "Train the feats needed for Role 4 (i.e. Fighter 4)" or "Train an attack feat to rank 2 and obtain/equip a +1 weapon with matching keywords." Players won't be forced to learn those feats in the suggested order (at least for now), but the kill quests will ramp up to match the assumed advancement rate, so jumping ahead wouldn't be suggested. The series of locations to go and enemies to kill will also serve as an introduction to the overall story of what's going on around Thornkeep, particularly the mysteries surrounding the Emerald Spire.

I have to give my usual answer for those interested in volunteering to help do the work, which is that we're not really set up for that kind of thing. What we are set up for though is to listen to your feedback throughout the development process so that we can make a better game for all of you, so keep it coming. For this quest in particular, we'll be putting it up on Zog when we have builds ready to look at, and I'll be happy to help get anyone interested in looking at it set up to do so.
Iram Thelbane
Bob: I am ending my first month of play and near to have all my gera in Tier 2. I can say that such a tutorial can help, because when you are starting the game, you are trying a lot of differents things and you you feel a litlle lost with the game mechanics….
One thing that can help could be to make new players focus on one role, for exemple rogue one. If they not spent their xp on other things than rogue stuff, they can reach easily Tier 2 within a month. And they can after this try to develop other roles…
Because when you are reaching Tier 2, life is easier! smile
Bob
Very true, getting to Tier 2 is an important milestone, and spreading yourself too thin will slow that down. Admittedly, some players value a variety of skills over faster power progression, but this new player quest is focused on making sure players know how to improve as adventures, and a reminder that they can do so faster by focusing on one role would be very appropriate.
Tyncale
This is the first part of my Archer Guide here: My first step-for-step Archer build to Tier3

Let's start to Train!

  • Medium Armor Proficiency 1
  • Bow Weapon Proficiency 1
  • Archer 1 (Armor feat)
  • Archer 2
  • Archer 3
  • Archer 4
  • Half Draw 1 (quick attack, primary, low endurance cost, interrupts)
  • Overdraw 1 (slow but powerfull attack, primary, medium endurance cost)
  • Ranged Attack Bonus 1
  • Overdraw 2
  • Half Draw 2
  • Ranged Attack Bonus 2
  • Half Draw 3
  • Overdraw 3
  • Reflex Bonus 1 (Needed for Evasion)
  • Evasion 1 (Utility that does not really need scaling up to be useful)
  • Fortitude Bonus 1 (Needed for Bulwark and Fighter Achievements)
  • Bulwark 1 (Utility that gives Mindblank and Freedom)

XP total: 6626 Dex:10.173, 2 days, 18 hours

Note: You can now use a Tier 1 +2 armor that makes full use of the Archer armor feat(Soldiers Chainmail +2) and a Tier 1 +2 Hunters Longbows that makes full use of the level 3 bow-attacks.
Now we need to get Dex to 11 before we can train Bow Proficiency 2 and can train level 4 (tier 2) attacks. For this you will venture deeper into the realm of the Fighter, and start with training Trophy Charm Proficiency so you can then train a Role Feat that fits this Build(Bow Specialization). Role Feats add a very good amount to your Ability (Dex in our case) and you need to climb up the ranks of Fighter in order to train this higher. Those Fighter levels will come automatically when you train in the correct Skills and Feats that are prerequisites. Role Feats also give very nice perks so you do not want to miss out on them. We will also train our first levels of our Defensives and Reactives now since they are so cheap and are useful at these low levels already.

  • Trophy Charm Implement Proficiency 1 (You can now slot a Trophy Charm implement)
  • Augment (Expendable, your super-useful Tier 1 selfheal that you can slot in your Trophy Charm)
  • Bow Specialization 1 (Role Feat)
  • Hit Points 1
  • Power 1 (You are now Fighter 1)
  • Base Attack Bonus 1
  • Power 2
  • Hit Points 2 (You are now Fighter 2)
  • Staggering Critical 1 (cheap first level of Reactive, will apply Slow on critical hit)
  • Master of Opportunity: Suffer (cheap first level of Reactive, will add base damage to mobs with Opportunity)
  • Bravery 1 (cheap first level of Defensive that lowers Crowd Control durations on you)
  • Lightning Reflexes (cheap first level of Defensive that gives a Reflex bonus)
  • Strong Back (cheap first level of Defensive that gives more Encumbrance)
  • Bow Specialization 2
  • Fortitude Bonus 2
  • Hit Points 3
  • Power 3 (You are now Fighter 3)
  • Base Attack Bonus 2
  • Power 4
  • Hit Points 4 (You are now Fighter 4)
  • Ranged Attack Bonus 3
  • Bow Specialization 3
  • Ranged Attack Bonus 4

XP total: 15990 Dex: 10.437, 6 days, 15 hours

At this point the absolute fastest way to get to 11 Dex is to train up to level 5 Bowyer right now. (Doing that earlier would have required 6 levels of Bowyer which would take longer again).

  • Bowyer 1
  • Bowyer 2
  • Bowyer 3
  • Bowyer 4
  • Bowyer 5

XP total: 36975 Dex: 11.033 (yay!) 15 days, 9 hours

First we train those Feats needed so we can start to dish out that Tier 2 damage. Now that we have reached Dex 11 so quickly we can also start to invest XP in more Bow attacks, including the 2 Fighter Role Attacks. These Role attacks are expensive but absolute worth it: besides, they give good Dex and we will milk all the useful Archer Feats before we start to pad our Dex with more Bowyer-levels. The loooong trek to Dex 20(Tier 3) has begun!

  • Bow Weapon Proficiency 2
  • Overdraw 4
  • Half Draw 4

XP Total: 46954 Dex: 11.199 19 days, 13 hours.

You can now dish out tier 2 damage if you equip a tier 2 Wardens Longbow +2! What a jump in damage! Now that you have those 2 attacks at level 4 (DPS!) we wil learn some more bow attacks to have some more diversity. We will also invest more in the Armor Feat and the Role Feat (which in turn will need some investment in Fighter levels and their prereq feats). You can decide for yourself what to train first, however there are some more gates involved at Dex 12, 13, 14 and 15 so your mileage may vary. Our end goal is Dex 20 and a viable character on the road to that Goal.

As you can see, you can be a viable Archer that is able to wield a T2 +2 Bow, in 16 days. In 2 more days you can wield T2 +2 armor.

I think one of the important things to hit home early in the tutorial, is that players will be focussing on one or two abilities for the role they want to play, and that they will sometimes be training stuff just to get these abilities up, so they keep unlocking new skills.

This sometimes feels a bit unintuitive and/or objectionable, because it feels bad to have to put your hard-earned (payed for) XP in a Bowskill that you may hardly ever use. Yet these Bowskills actually give a nice boost to the Ability(Dex), as opposed to for instance Hitpoints, which gives a minuscule bonus. Yet people would love to spend their xp in Hitpoints. But they can't because they want to get Dex to 11 asap so they can buy their Tier 2 level 4 Bowskills. (Though Hitpoints are fairly cheap to buy, but just as an example).
Regalo Harnoncourt, Leader of the River Kingdoms Trading Company, High Council of Callambea.
This is the character that I am playing almost 100% of the time. (Tyncale is my Sage/Mage)
Bob
Nice detail on the Archer build, Tyncale! This quest can't be nearly as specific, sadly, and won't quite as heavily prioritize getting to T2 as rapidly as possible, but it would be good to point out the importance of focusing on a particular ability score. Of course, we don't always have all the info easily available in-game for that, so it's a little tricky at the moment without looking at the spreadsheets or at the Goblinary.

As a question for the peanut gallery, would it be useful for me to put a Suggested Builds sub-topic under each of the role forums? Might help keep these kinds of posts more organized.
Flari-Merchant
Great guide, Tyncale. \

@ Bob
From Peanut #374: If you have the time and it will easily move to Paizo forums. The more great info that we(or anyone) can access on the main site, the better.
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
Bob
Bringslite of Staalgard
From Peanut #374: If you have the time and it will easily move to Paizo forums. The more great info that we(or anyone) can access on the main site, the better.

Adding sub-topics to the forums is pretty simple, and sometimes I just need to take a break and do something easy. As for the Paizo forums, I'm not sure how well our current forums will transfer over, but we use sub-topics elsewhere, so it's something we'll have to deal with. If some aspect of the forums turns out to be incredibly useful but doesn't translate well, I think we'll just have to figure out something that achieves the same thing in a different way. In the meantime, if folks would find these sub-topics useful, then I'm happy to add them. If they wouldn't be very useful, or worse yet just felt like they'd overly complicate the forums, then I'm happy not to.
Flari-Merchant
Bob
Bringslite of Staalgard
From Peanut #374: If you have the time and it will easily move to Paizo forums. The more great info that we(or anyone) can access on the main site, the better.

Adding sub-topics to the forums is pretty simple, and sometimes I just need to take a break and do something easy. As for the Paizo forums, I'm not sure how well our current forums will transfer over, but we use sub-topics elsewhere, so it's something we'll have to deal with. If some aspect of the forums turns out to be incredibly useful but doesn't translate well, I think we'll just have to figure out something that achieves the same thing in a different way. In the meantime, if folks would find these sub-topics useful, then I'm happy to add them. If they wouldn't be very useful, or worse yet just felt like they'd overly complicate the forums, then I'm happy not to.
I know that we are getting "some" new faces in-game lately, but they aren't many. So YMMV on whether it is worth doing now. Fully understand moving back from mind intensive tasks for a break though.

No other Peanuts feel like chirping an opinion?
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
Duffy Swiftshadow
In theory we should be able to add straight text pages to Goblinary or at least setup something up that is interlinked without too much trouble. I'm working on another project at the moment but once it slows down I can expend some effort on sprucing up Goblinary/PFONexus with some new tools and info. The other project is actually helping me flesh out ideas and techniques I'm hoping I can use to expand Goblinary, very similar projects.
 
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