Cookies Disclaimer

I agree Our site saves small pieces of text information (cookies) on your device in order to authenticate logins, deliver better content and provide statistical analysis. You can adjust your browser settings to prevent our site from using cookies, but doing so will prevent some aspects of the site from functioning properly.

Harvesting (aka Gushers)

Bob
HowardWdW
So to be clear Bob. Is it the gathering skill AT THE TIME THE GUSHER KIT IS PLACED or during the harvest cycle?

During. We check gathering skill of the owner (if they're around) every cycle, so you generally want to keep the appropriate skill maxed throughout.

HowardWdW
This comes back to my complaint about armor types not matching up well with having multiple skills. So while there is a FEATURE for all 4 gathering skills (Invested with Secrets) there is no Armor skill that covers all 4 gathering skills.

One of the big design principles for the game is requiring tradeoffs. That doesn't mean we wouldn't necessarily provide an armor skill that covers all the gathering skills, but if we did, it wouldn't provide as much in any one gathering skill as another armor feat that lets you specialize.

HowardWdW
A 10% increase in amount gathered between level 14 and level 17 makes it questionable as to whether it's worth investing in higher gathering skill. I would suggest another look at that math to tilt the numbers more.

The 10% number was only meant to show that any improvements are consistent between harvesting and gathering. If you have a 10% improvement in gathering numbers, then you should also have a 10% improvement in harvesting numbers. If it's 20% in gathering, then it's 20% in harvesting. Your actual percentage improvement depends entirely on your actual skill at each of those ranks, so there's no single answer to the percentage of improvement between ranks 14 and 17.

HowardWdW
Any way you can give us the actual math?

Here's the current gathering math for each pull:

Chances of getting 10 resources: skill/4496
Chances of getting 8 resources: skill/2248
Chances of getting 6 resources: skill/1124
Chances of getting 4 resources: skill/562
Otherwise, you get 2 resources

Harvesting pulls are the same, except that they deliver half as many resources each pull (so 1-5 instead of 2-10).

Bob
Bob
The 10% number was only meant to show that any improvements are consistent between harvesting and gathering. If you have a 10% improvement in gathering numbers, then you should also have a 10% improvement in harvesting numbers. If it's 20% in gathering, then it's 20% in harvesting. Your actual percentage improvement depends entirely on your actual skill at each of those ranks, so there's no single answer to the percentage of improvement between ranks 14 and 17.

Funny enough, I just ran the numbers quickly and, assuming I did things right, the expected gathering increase per node between ranks 14 and 17 per pull, not accounting for any other skill improvements, is about 9.6%. Of course, the more skill points you have from other sources, the lower the percentage of improvement. On the other hand, you're also getting faster, so your expected amount gathered over time would go up by a bit more than that.
HowardWdW
Bob, I would like to suggest you think about that math a little more keeping in mind the investment in XP necessary to gain levels past 14. As I said to increase from level 14 to 17 took me about 500,000 xp. That's over half a YEAR's worth of XP. And for that I get a 10% increase in gathered resources? Sorry, not a good investment.

I suggest you want to make that increase MUCH more significant to encourage people to raise their skill level above bare minimum for T3 gathering. So perhaps a formula that does something like (skill + (sum of levels x 5)). Where sum of levels if you were level 5 would be 1+2+3+4+5= 15. 10th level would be 55, 14 would be 105 and 17 would be 153. Then the difference in % chance to get a 10 resource pull would go from (assuming a 170 base skill with equipment at level 14) 15.46% to 20.79%. Etc for the other pull numbers.

Assuming your formula works in an iterative check (check pull 10, no, then check pull 8, no then check pull 6 etc) this would mean higher level gatherers would eventually never get a pull of 2 or even 4 at higher level, which would make gaining levels far more significant and worth the resource investment as well as increasing gathering for the community as a whole.
Bob
Going from 14 to 17 in a gathering feat should be closer to 300k XP, so about 4 months worth, but that's admittedly still a lot.

We can certainly tweak the progression balance, and we've already discussed some possible ways of evening out the benefits from ranking gathering skills up (they're heavily weighted toward the ranks that provide a new tier of resources, and thus the biggest benefits have been handed out by rank 14). That said, steeply diminishing marginal returns is part of the progression for most feats, with the goal being to nudge players toward branching out.
Decius
Bob
Here's the current gathering math for each pull:

Chances of getting 10 resources: skill/4496
Chances of getting 8 resources: skill/2248
Chances of getting 6 resources: skill/1124
Chances of getting 4 resources: skill/562
Otherwise, you get 2 resources

Harvesting pulls are the same, except that they deliver half as many resources each pull (so 1-5 instead of 2-10).
At 300 skill, that can't add up. I get 53.38% of 4, 26.69% of 6, 13.35% of 8, and 6.67% of 10, a total of 100.09 percent.
Quick reference.
Maxen
You’ve discovered my diobolical plot to syphon off the extra 0.09% of your pulls, a la Superman III and Office Space… Foiled again!!! Sheesh, rounding.
Bob
Decius
Bob
Here's the current gathering math for each pull:

Chances of getting 10 resources: skill/4496
Chances of getting 8 resources: skill/2248
Chances of getting 6 resources: skill/1124
Chances of getting 4 resources: skill/562
Otherwise, you get 2 resources

Harvesting pulls are the same, except that they deliver half as many resources each pull (so 1-5 instead of 2-10).
At 300 skill, that can't add up. I get 53.38% of 4, 26.69% of 6, 13.35% of 8, and 6.67% of 10, a total of 100.09 percent.
Quick reference.

Yes, I skipped over a small complication. The process makes one random roll, then checks each possibility in order. At high skill levels, by the time you get to 4, the number of possibilities left is less than or equal to the probability listed above. In those cases, you're simply guaranteed to get at least 4, and the probability of that happening is equal to 100% minus the sum of all the previous probabilities.
Flari-Merchant
wrong thread. Please delete
Decius
… Updated the quick reference to what I believe the true values are: 562.5, 1125, 2250, 4500. I'll make a note to test gathering at a skill of 300 on Zog when it's possible to get that high.
HowardWdW
Bob, when looking at the XP cost to go from 14 to 17 I think you just looked at the cost for raising that skill rank. However in order to raise that rank you need ability score increases beyond that gained from the rank itself. To get to level 17 miner I had to train Tanner, Smelter and Sawyer each to rank 10 also, plus some armor feats.
 
You must be logged into an enrolled account to post