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EE 14

Maxen
Thanks for the response and update Bob. Be well.
You are a Troll
Bob
You are a Troll
So, what kind of ammo equals current level of *effectiveness*?

For most T1 characters, salvage ammo will put you roughly there. For most T2 characters T1 +0 ammo will do so, and for most T3 characters T1 +4 will do so.

Excellent. So T2+0 and above ammo will be *more effective* in all cases for all bow, focus, staff and wand attacks than the level 6 attacks are currently without ammo? And Starknife stays where it is currently?
Flari-Merchant
You are a Troll
Bob
You are a Troll
So, what kind of ammo equals current level of *effectiveness*?

For most T1 characters, salvage ammo will put you roughly there. For most T2 characters T1 +0 ammo will do so, and for most T3 characters T1 +4 will do so.

Excellent. So T2+0 and above ammo will be *more effective* in all cases for all bow, focus, staff and wand attacks than the level 6 attacks are currently without ammo? And Starknife stays where it is currently?

We'll have to see exactly what that means, in play. I suppose that numbers and values can be changed pretty easily if needed. I can't think of better times to try things than before there is a large player base and 10X more players to disgruntle either way.

At this point, I am ok with playing lab rat as long as the end product is something that makes the game playable for a larger audience. I imagine that we all want that. smile
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
Bob
You are a Troll
Excellent. So T2+0 and above ammo will be *more effective* in all cases for all bow, focus, staff and wand attacks than the level 6 attacks are currently without ammo? And Starknife stays where it is currently?

Yes, T2+0 and above ammo should generally make you more effective than you currently are. That said, some of that effectiveness may be coming from no longer being rooted, some from more damage, and some from more effects. Rebalancing attacks requires making lots of little changes until the numbers work out, so the exact improvements vary from attack to attack.

The Star Slinger and other ranged attacks that don't use ammo are interesting cases. When rebalancing the numbers, those attacks actually wound up improving a bit. If that makes them overpowered, then we'll have to revisit how much weight is given to the advantage of being a ranged attack. We might also have to consider whether or not being a ranged attack simply requires certain disadvantages (opportunity, slowed, … ). However, having those disadvantages actually boosts the damage/effects that the attacks do, so it's tricky to work with those tradeoffs.
Edam
Bob
You are a Troll
Excellent. So T2+0 and above ammo will be *more effective* in all cases for all bow, focus, staff and wand attacks than the level 6 attacks are currently without ammo? And Starknife stays where it is currently?

Yes, T2+0 and above ammo should generally make you more effective than you currently are. That said, some of that effectiveness may be coming from no longer being rooted, some from more damage, and some from more effects. Rebalancing attacks requires making lots of little changes until the numbers work out, so the exact improvements vary from attack to attack.

The Star Slinger and other ranged attacks that don't use ammo are interesting cases. When rebalancing the numbers, those attacks actually wound up improving a bit. If that makes them overpowered, then we'll have to revisit how much weight is given to the advantage of being a ranged attack. We might also have to consider whether or not being a ranged attack simply requires certain disadvantages (opportunity, slowed, … ). However, having those disadvantages actually boosts the damage/effects that the attacks do, so it's tricky to work with those tradeoffs.

Starlinger providing opportunity just by throwing the knife would make it MORE powerful not less. I will not go into why. Be careful on that one.
Harad Navar
I hope you can get a starknife receipt soon to make use of Keen. I would be very happy even without a new weapon graphic.
Knowledge can explain the darkness, but it is not a light.
Bob
Harad Navar
I hope you can get a starknife receipt soon to make use of Keen. I would be very happy even without a new weapon graphic.

Interestingly, Keen is actually a magic keyword that gets onto the weapon through enchanting.
Decius
Edam
Bob
You are a Troll
Excellent. So T2+0 and above ammo will be *more effective* in all cases for all bow, focus, staff and wand attacks than the level 6 attacks are currently without ammo? And Starknife stays where it is currently?

Yes, T2+0 and above ammo should generally make you more effective than you currently are. That said, some of that effectiveness may be coming from no longer being rooted, some from more damage, and some from more effects. Rebalancing attacks requires making lots of little changes until the numbers work out, so the exact improvements vary from attack to attack.

The Star Slinger and other ranged attacks that don't use ammo are interesting cases. When rebalancing the numbers, those attacks actually wound up improving a bit. If that makes them overpowered, then we'll have to revisit how much weight is given to the advantage of being a ranged attack. We might also have to consider whether or not being a ranged attack simply requires certain disadvantages (opportunity, slowed, … ). However, having those disadvantages actually boosts the damage/effects that the attacks do, so it's tricky to work with those tradeoffs.

Starlinger providing opportunity just by throwing the knife would make it MORE powerful not less. I will not go into why. Be careful on that one.
Making the Master Of Opportunity line a bit better would go a fair ways to fixing that.
Edam
Decius
Making the Master Of Opportunity line a bit better would go a fair ways to fixing that.

The issue is that certain rogue feats REQUIRE you to be giving opportunity to the enemy. With these feats your character giving opportunity to the enemy is a positive boon not a downside at all.

A current downside with starslinger is your character cannot reliably give opportunity by just throwing the weapon so instead you have to rely on the very buggy opportunity you incur by running to get your feats triggered (sometimes opportunity occurs changing from a walk to a sprint sometimes it is triggered by slowing to a walk, other times you have it and suddenly lose it for no apparent reason).

A change to starslinger to present opportunity when throwing it does make sense but its important to realise that in the case of starslinger that is a benefit to many users not a downside.
Decius
Edam
Decius
Making the Master Of Opportunity line a bit better would go a fair ways to fixing that.

The issue is that certain rogue feats REQUIRE you to be giving opportunity to the enemy. With these feats your character giving opportunity to the enemy is a positive boon not a downside at all.

A current downside with starslinger is your character cannot reliably give opportunity by just throwing the weapon so instead you have to rely on the very buggy opportunity you incur by running to get your feats triggered (sometimes opportunity occurs changing from a walk to a sprint sometimes it is triggered by slowing to a walk, other times you have it and suddenly lose it for no apparent reason).

A change to starslinger to present opportunity when throwing it does make sense but its important to realise that in the case of starslinger that is a benefit to many users not a downside.
Yes, and the underlying problem is that Daredevil rogues see little downside from granting opportunity even when faced with builds that should specialize against it.
 
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