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EE 14

You are a Troll
Bunibuni
Since DC requires being in melee range and wizards melee AC is much lower than most other armors that is a spell that requires some thinking in using. It's great against mobs that are lower level than you, pretty good against a handful of foes that are your level and can be very dangerous to try to use against a single foe of higher level than you. So I don't think it is that unbalanced.

Bob
Enforcing the ammo requirement for Devourer's Caress will likely help limit the ability to just keep firing it off repeatedly, particularly with the occasional need to reload, but the added damage based on ammo quality will probably make up for that. I'm not 100% certain yet exactly how imbalanced that specific attack is, or if it's perhaps more that it's just getting used particularly well, but I've got it on the list to take a closer look at when I can. The deeper question with it is whether our balance formulas aren't giving proper weight to some of its effects, or possibly even if there's something about the magnitude of its effects or the particular combination of effects that make the balance formulas just plain not apply properly.

Obviously neither one of you have used the Chill Touch Devourer's Caress combo or been in a group where all the Wizards default to it. It is HIGHLY effective against just about anything and I use it all the time even in the strongest escalations like Gathering of Legends. There is something very wrong and unbalanced when people in robes can tank so effectively but Fighters in Heavy Armor cannot at all. Nerf it please.
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Better idea, make fighter heavy armor not suck. Maybe make unbreakable have better stats per level. Just nerfing the red mist combo ain't gonna do it. Fighters still can't tank worth a damn.
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Bunibuni
Actually I have, that's how I use that combo. But if two or more Tier two purples are hitting you especially if they are spread enough that you can't hit them both without moving or Tier 3 is when you are in Tier 2 robes and using a Tier 2 wand, your survival rate is abysmal. Or at least mine is. And of course, it depends on whether said purples are doing energy attacks or physical attacks. I can stand up too two Ogre Shamans, for example, with no qualms. But put me up against two purples doing physical attacks? Death dirge starts playing.

I went up against a Scout yesterday, barely held my own and that's thanks to using a couple of Greater Armor chits to raise my armor rating to 24 and a couple of Greater Healing chits and one Aura of Healing while doing a whopping 50 to 60 pts of damage to him with each attack. I had less than 10% of my hit point bar left when he went down. Oh, and I used a Greater Force Missile Spell as well. With ammo, I might just run out of ammo if I meet the same sort of monster when it comes in. Or maybe it will be a bit easier if with ammo, that combo does more damage. We will have to see.



Obviously neither one of you have used the Chill Touch Devourer's Caress combo or been in a group where all the Wizards default to it. It is HIGHLY effective against just about anything and I use it all the time even in the strongest escalations like Gathering of Legends. There is something very wrong and unbalanced when people in robes can tank so effectively but Fighters in Heavy Armor cannot at all. Nerf it please.
Crafting! Gathering! Monster Killing! Exploring! Politicking! That's us in a nutshell! Ranged Attackers, crafters and gatherers come join the Holy Magicks company based out of High Road. Our main motto is "Death Thru Superior Fire Powers!"
Bunibuni
It's not that their armor sucks, its their energy resistance that sucks so you have to continually artificially raise that up in the big fights, which keeps apothecaries busy making potions for such a purpose. And the game was originally set up for the fighters to be up front doing damage while clerics stood right behind them constantly healing them. Which, I grant you, is not a great game mechanic for soloing.

Paddy Fitzpatrick
Better idea, make fighter heavy armor not suck. Maybe make unbreakable have better stats per level. Just nerfing the red mist combo ain't gonna do it. Fighters still can't tank worth a damn.
Crafting! Gathering! Monster Killing! Exploring! Politicking! That's us in a nutshell! Ranged Attackers, crafters and gatherers come join the Holy Magicks company based out of High Road. Our main motto is "Death Thru Superior Fire Powers!"
Stilachio Thrax
You are a Troll
…There is something very wrong and unbalanced when people in robes can tank so effectively but Fighters in Heavy Armor cannot at all. Nerf it please.

I could live with the Chill/DC combo if they simply made heavy armor not suck in every way possible. Bob has said that once enchantments are in, robes and lighter armors will lose their inherent OPness and need enchantments to be effective, but we'll see. Heavy armor still needs a big boost.
Virtus et Honor

Steward of Ozem's Vigil, Lord Commander of the Argyraspides Iomedais
Edam
Here is a partial solution:

  • base level T1 armor has zero energy resistance for heavy armor and zero physical resistance for cloth (just like they do now)
  • for every tier above base level all armors gain +2 physical and +2 energy resistance

Note that even though it may be tempting to add +3 or more resistance per tier, adding something like +5 resistance each tier would make light and medium armors even more optimal than ever, though this could be "balanced" to some extent by fiddling with the base T1 resistances of light and medium armors.

One of the biggest issues with heavy is unlike cloth armor (with CT/DC), light armor (with Wright for regen and potentially CT/DC as well) or medium armor (healer for regen) there are no healing options for heavy armor other than actually using a dedicated heal of some sort (trophy charm, symbol, focus, token, potion). The solution is not necessary nerf the regen of the other 3 armor types, it is better to provide a similar option to heavy (healing shield attacks or a regen armor feat are two good examples).
You are a Troll
Bunibuni
Actually I have, that's how I use that combo. But if two or more Tier two purples are hitting you especially if they are spread enough that you can't hit them both without moving or Tier 3 is when you are in Tier 2 robes and using a Tier 2 wand, your survival rate is abysmal. Or at least mine is. And of course, it depends on whether said purples are doing energy attacks or physical attacks. I can stand up too two Ogre Shamans, for example, with no qualms. But put me up against two purples doing physical attacks? Death dirge starts playing.

I went up against a Scout yesterday, barely held my own and that's thanks to using a couple of Greater Armor chits to raise my armor rating to 24 and a couple of Greater Healing chits and one Aura of Healing while doing a whopping 50 to 60 pts of damage to him with each attack. I had less than 10% of my hit point bar left when he went down. Oh, and I used a Greater Force Missile Spell as well. With ammo, I might just run out of ammo if I meet the same sort of monster when it comes in. Or maybe it will be a bit easier if with ammo, that combo does more damage. We will have to see.

Just ask to go out with the some Dominion groups some evening and watch people who are actually proficient in using the combo. Or better yet, Bob, please do exactly that so you can first hand witness how broken it is. Seeing the Wizard run forward to melee engage T3 mobs while everyone else is scrambling (and no one even show up wearing Heavy Armor becasue it sucks) is stupid. It should never happen. How is it we are going to have ammo realism and spell components (charges) but still have Mage Tanks? Beat Devourer's Caress with the nerf stick, hard.
Flari-Merchant
Bunibuni is Dominion. We almost always have heavy armored characters involved in escalations. Without logs to look at, I can't say if they are all that effective in comparison. I will say that in most tough escalations the Heavies are constantly wounded more.
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Decius
You are a Troll
Bunibuni
Since DC requires being in melee range and wizards melee AC is much lower than most other armors that is a spell that requires some thinking in using. It's great against mobs that are lower level than you, pretty good against a handful of foes that are your level and can be very dangerous to try to use against a single foe of higher level than you. So I don't think it is that unbalanced.

Bob
Enforcing the ammo requirement for Devourer's Caress will likely help limit the ability to just keep firing it off repeatedly, particularly with the occasional need to reload, but the added damage based on ammo quality will probably make up for that. I'm not 100% certain yet exactly how imbalanced that specific attack is, or if it's perhaps more that it's just getting used particularly well, but I've got it on the list to take a closer look at when I can. The deeper question with it is whether our balance formulas aren't giving proper weight to some of its effects, or possibly even if there's something about the magnitude of its effects or the particular combination of effects that make the balance formulas just plain not apply properly.

Obviously neither one of you have used the Chill Touch Devourer's Caress combo or been in a group where all the Wizards default to it. It is HIGHLY effective against just about anything and I use it all the time even in the strongest escalations like Gathering of Legends. There is something very wrong and unbalanced when people in robes can tank so effectively but Fighters in Heavy Armor cannot at all. Nerf it please.

There's something great about robes being better able to reduce energy damage than heavy armor. It's directly a way to avoid the emergent situation where tanking is a specialized role- rather than the same character doing nothing but take hits is every encounter, sometimes that job is better done by an entirely different build.

But if it weren't for the armor arcane penalty, the second best physical tanks and second-best DPS would be wizards with DC in heavy armor. Best tank would remain the self-heeling cleric, and best DPS would remain the cleric-rogue-wizard stacking bleeding, afflicted, and burning with every attack.

But being almost as good as anyone else at everything, without having to do anything complicated, IS pretty boss.
Decius
The basic design of the game is pretty clear; each build can be really good at doing one or two damage types at a time, and fairly good at resisting physical or energy.

The dynamic is supposed to be of attacking the things that your opponent is weak in, while presenting the defenses and resistances that they have trouble overcoming. Cleric beats fighter beats rogue beats wizard beats cleric (energy beats heavy armor, physical beats light armor).

Make that more. Rogue class features already get afflicted on their preferred condition, and can treat more targets as though they had it. Give that kind of thing to the other roles; a cleric feature 'smiting', which occurs if the target is disrupted or immobile and grants a bunch of precise and allows conditional effects on disrupted to trigger; Give high level fighters Grandmaster of Opportunity Reactive feats that make Daredevil Rogues actually reconsider, and bring the Wizard's Mastery feats up to the same power level as the rogue's Strike Reactive Feats.

If possible, add debuffs that does -stack size to only one attack bonus each, or that reduce resistances other than physical, or are otherwise so situational that having the right one prepared against an opponent that doesn't is often decisive, while having the worst one prepared offers no benefit.
 
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