Ammunition

Bob 09.07.2017 09:28
	Father Bronin What is the current timeframe for EE14? We're still shooting for close to the end of September. Quote

Father Bronin 09.07.2017 09:36
	Bob Father Bronin What is the current timeframe for EE14? We're still shooting for close to the end of September. Thanks Bob. Time to start gathering ammo. FB Quote

Flari-Merchant 09.09.2017 10:05
	On the highest end side of the ammo for arrows and with top notch crafters, I can easily gather the materials to craft faster than I can craft the arrows. This without gushers. The craft time is in the "Days" range however. On the low end of the ammo spectrum, it is not possible to keep the pace of the gathering up to speed with the crafting. This even with gushers. I do not know if that is intended but I do know that it will mean that T3 ammunition(for bows) will not be inexpensive or something thrown around casually. Adequate supplies of T2 will be challenging enough to maintain. I like it. Quote

Flari-Merchant 09.09.2017 10:05

On the highest end side of the ammo for arrows and with top notch crafters, I can easily gather the materials to craft faster than I can craft the arrows. This without gushers. The craft time is in the "Days" range however.

On the low end of the ammo spectrum, it is not possible to keep the pace of the gathering up to speed with the crafting. This even with gushers.

I do not know if that is intended but I do know that it will mean that T3 ammunition(for bows) will not be inexpensive or something thrown around casually. Adequate supplies of T2 will be challenging enough to maintain.

I like it.

Quote

Flari-Merchant 09.11.2017 11:56
	@ Bob, Did we ever suss out whether iconographer and artificer ammo was going to be different as the names are the same? Quote

Bob 09.11.2017 13:07
	Bringslite-Dominion Soldier Did we ever suss out whether iconographer and artificer ammo was going to be different as the names are the same? Even though the recipes have different names, their output is identical, so there's no way to tell the items apart once they've been produced. Just think of it as two paths to the same destination. Quote

You are a Troll 09.11.2017 13:33
	And for now can we assume Axiomatic/Anarchic and Holy/Unholy are identical since alignment isn't in? Quote

Bob 09.11.2017 15:01
	You are a Troll And for now can we assume Axiomatic/Anarchic and Holy/Unholy are identical since alignment isn't in? Since those charges are slightly more expensive, I've been playing around with some ways to make them a little better than simple charges. Here's my current experiment, all of which is on top of the amount of base damage and effect power that's already added by the simple charges: At T1, Anarchic and Axiomatic add more damage, while Holy and Unholy add more effect power. At T2, Anarchic adds more damage and Unholy adds more effect power, while Axiomatic and Holy add a bit of each. At T3, Anarchic adds more damage, Axiomatic adds mostly damage plus a bit of effect power, Holy adds mostly effect power and a bit of damage, and Unholy adds more effect power. That way you're getting a bit of extra value out of more expensive ammo, plus some ammunition is slightly better matched to some attacks than others. Similarly, for arrows I've tried setting up Broadhead arrows to do more damage in exchange for a slight decrease in effect power relative to Bodkin arrows (they should generally be better overall than Bodkin arrows, unless you're using an attack that's virtually all effects). I've also given a separate damage boost to all the iron arrow variants and a separate effect power boost to all the silver arrow variants. All of this is just meant to stand in for the extra value of those ammo variants until we can get in the more specific advantages intended for each type of ammo, but it will hopefully provide adequate differences to make it worth creating a variety of ammo types. Quote

Bob 09.11.2017 15:01

You are a Troll
And for now can we assume Axiomatic/Anarchic and Holy/Unholy are identical since alignment isn't in?

Since those charges are slightly more expensive, I've been playing around with some ways to make them a little better than simple charges. Here's my current experiment, all of which is on top of the amount of base damage and effect power that's already added by the simple charges:

At T1, Anarchic and Axiomatic add more damage, while Holy and Unholy add more effect power.
At T2, Anarchic adds more damage and Unholy adds more effect power, while Axiomatic and Holy add a bit of each.
At T3, Anarchic adds more damage, Axiomatic adds mostly damage plus a bit of effect power, Holy adds mostly effect power and a bit of damage, and Unholy adds more effect power.

That way you're getting a bit of extra value out of more expensive ammo, plus some ammunition is slightly better matched to some attacks than others.

Similarly, for arrows I've tried setting up Broadhead arrows to do more damage in exchange for a slight decrease in effect power relative to Bodkin arrows (they should generally be better overall than Bodkin arrows, unless you're using an attack that's virtually all effects). I've also given a separate damage boost to all the iron arrow variants and a separate effect power boost to all the silver arrow variants.

All of this is just meant to stand in for the extra value of those ammo variants until we can get in the more specific advantages intended for each type of ammo, but it will hopefully provide adequate differences to make it worth creating a variety of ammo types.

Quote

Flari-Merchant 09.12.2017 10:16
	Bob You are a Troll And for now can we assume Axiomatic/Anarchic and Holy/Unholy are identical since alignment isn't in? Since those charges are slightly more expensive, I've been playing around with some ways to make them a little better than simple charges. Here's my current experiment, all of which is on top of the amount of base damage and effect power that's already added by the simple charges: At T1, Anarchic and Axiomatic add more damage, while Holy and Unholy add more effect power. At T2, Anarchic adds more damage and Unholy adds more effect power, while Axiomatic and Holy add a bit of each. At T3, Anarchic adds more damage, Axiomatic adds mostly damage plus a bit of effect power, Holy adds mostly effect power and a bit of damage, and Unholy adds more effect power. That way you're getting a bit of extra value out of more expensive ammo, plus some ammunition is slightly better matched to some attacks than others. Similarly, for arrows I've tried setting up Broadhead arrows to do more damage in exchange for a slight decrease in effect power relative to Bodkin arrows (they should generally be better overall than Bodkin arrows, unless you're using an attack that's virtually all effects). I've also given a separate damage boost to all the iron arrow variants and a separate effect power boost to all the silver arrow variants. All of this is just meant to stand in for the extra value of those ammo variants until we can get in the more specific advantages intended for each type of ammo, but it will hopefully provide adequate differences to make it worth creating a variety of ammo types. Well here is a mean question: when can we have a look at some of these differences and the actual spreads of them so that we can better determine what we want to craft and ratio of specific type? Quote

Flari-Merchant 09.12.2017 10:16

Bob
You are a Troll
And for now can we assume Axiomatic/Anarchic and Holy/Unholy are identical since alignment isn't in?

Since those charges are slightly more expensive, I've been playing around with some ways to make them a little better than simple charges. Here's my current experiment, all of which is on top of the amount of base damage and effect power that's already added by the simple charges:

At T1, Anarchic and Axiomatic add more damage, while Holy and Unholy add more effect power.
At T2, Anarchic adds more damage and Unholy adds more effect power, while Axiomatic and Holy add a bit of each.
At T3, Anarchic adds more damage, Axiomatic adds mostly damage plus a bit of effect power, Holy adds mostly effect power and a bit of damage, and Unholy adds more effect power.

That way you're getting a bit of extra value out of more expensive ammo, plus some ammunition is slightly better matched to some attacks than others.

Similarly, for arrows I've tried setting up Broadhead arrows to do more damage in exchange for a slight decrease in effect power relative to Bodkin arrows (they should generally be better overall than Bodkin arrows, unless you're using an attack that's virtually all effects). I've also given a separate damage boost to all the iron arrow variants and a separate effect power boost to all the silver arrow variants.

All of this is just meant to stand in for the extra value of those ammo variants until we can get in the more specific advantages intended for each type of ammo, but it will hopefully provide adequate differences to make it worth creating a variety of ammo types.

Well here is a mean question: when can we have a look at some of these differences and the actual spreads of them so that we can better determine what we want to craft and ratio of specific type? smile

Quote

Bob 09.12.2017 12:09
	Bringslite-Dominion Soldier Well here is a mean question: when can we have a look at some of these differences and the actual spreads of them so that we can better determine what we want to craft and ratio of specific type? I'll try to post them once I'm happy with the initial implementation. Of course, they'll be subject to rebalancing once we see how they work on Zog and in the real game, but so far the current settings look to be in about the right range. Quote

Bob 09.12.2017 12:09

Bringslite-Dominion Soldier
Well here is a mean question: when can we have a look at some of these differences and the actual spreads of them so that we can better determine what we want to craft and ratio of specific type?

I'll try to post them once I'm happy with the initial implementation. Of course, they'll be subject to rebalancing once we see how they work on Zog and in the real game, but so far the current settings look to be in about the right range.

Quote

Bob 09.12.2017 12:52
	Decius Is is that Base Damage is Weapon: 40+5minor keyword+20major keyword matched + Ammo: ??? + Conditional: Per feat used (Master of Opp, Sneak Attack, + to base damage) Which then has the resistance of the target subtracted before multiplying by Damage Factor, then having zero or more percent subtracted based on attack roll deficit? If so, what is the range of base damage bonus that you are contemplating? Is any of that a placeholder for when we care about cold iron bodkin versus mithril broadhead arrows? Had to double-check with Cole, but yes, that's basically how the base damage from ammo will get added in. Ammo will also increase your Effect Power by adding some percentage points to the final effect power calculation. I'm still fiddling with the exact ammo numbers, but with the ammo requirement being treated as a 20% damage/effect cost in the balancing formula, it looks like I need to return at least that much in base damage and effect power. That means returning 25% or more of the base damage and effect power one would normally have for various tiered attacks, since paying the ammo "tax" is supposed to actually make your attack significantly better in exchange. That could range from returning 12-50 points of base damage, and possibly from 24-100 percentage points in effect power. Those numbers sound a little high, admittedly, but the feats have been rebalanced to include that ammo cost and therefore theoretically leave room for that level of improvement. Still, I need to try it out more to be sure. And yes, as I mentioned in some other recent posts, some of those bonuses are meant to stand in for the increased expense of ammo variants like bodkin vs. broadhead. Quote

Bob 09.12.2017 12:52

Decius
Is is that Base Damage is
Weapon: 40+5*minor keyword+20*major keyword matched
+
Ammo: ???
+
Conditional: Per feat used (Master of Opp, Sneak Attack, + to base damage)

Which then has the resistance of the target subtracted before multiplying by Damage Factor, then having zero or more percent subtracted based on attack roll deficit?
If so, what is the range of base damage bonus that you are contemplating? Is any of that a placeholder for when we care about cold iron bodkin versus mithril broadhead arrows?

Had to double-check with Cole, but yes, that's basically how the base damage from ammo will get added in. Ammo will also increase your Effect Power by adding some percentage points to the final effect power calculation.

I'm still fiddling with the exact ammo numbers, but with the ammo requirement being treated as a 20% damage/effect cost in the balancing formula, it looks like I need to return at least that much in base damage and effect power. That means returning 25% or more of the base damage and effect power one would normally have for various tiered attacks, since paying the ammo "tax" is supposed to actually make your attack significantly better in exchange. That could range from returning 12-50 points of base damage, and possibly from 24-100 percentage points in effect power. Those numbers sound a little high, admittedly, but the feats have been rebalanced to include that ammo cost and therefore theoretically leave room for that level of improvement. Still, I need to try it out more to be sure.

And yes, as I mentioned in some other recent posts, some of those bonuses are meant to stand in for the increased expense of ammo variants like bodkin vs. broadhead.

Quote

Cookies Disclaimer