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Ammunition

Bob
Edam
Sooo …

With regard to influence and achievements.

If you are in party and holding a bow and have no ammo will you still get influence and achievements when other people kill stuff.

Yes, you'll still get kill credits just as before. You can still fire your bow with makeshift ammo anyway (just slower and while doing less damage), so you shouldn't think of the bow as useless when out of ammo, just as less powerful.
HowardWdW
Bob,
I think you need to give some serious consideration to the ratios of amount of resources needed to gather, amount of ammo produced from said resources and time to craft ammo.

As an example my level 20 bowyer can turn out about 1000 +3 T2 arrows per day. My level 19 Iconographer can turn out 750 +3 T2 charges per day. A fighting character in PvE uses about 1000 ammo per day. Therefore my max level crafters are fully occupied supplying ONE character with ammo.

No one in their right mind will EVER waste time crafting T3 ammo. At about 2.8 days per 1 batch of 100 arrows or 7.5 days for 250 charges my guys can turn out about 3000 T2+3 arrows or 5625 T2+3 charges in the same time.

This also doesn't speak to the absurd amount of gathering to craft all this ammo in the first place.

Suggestion: (Much as I hate to say this having crafted 1000's of charges and arrows at this point) increase the amount output per recipe AND drastically decrease the craft time for all ammo. (Remember this is a max level crafter. Low T1/T2 guys will have even more problems crafting enough ammo).
Flari-Merchant
Personally after also having crafted 1000's + of ammunition, I would like to hear a pretty damn good reason to go the increased output way if there is no way to compensate crafters that have been busy like beavers in preparation for this.

It would not be fun to find out that after having asked a few times on the forums here and by email "Can I start crafting ammo? Are the numbers locked?" that all the materials gathered and the time on Queue checking AND training up additional characters to craft ammunition was "My Bad".
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Or…just tweak the numbers so that one crafter doesn't have to be constantly dedicated to a single fighter. Even if the game pop gets higher having a one to one dedicated fighter to crafter ratio does not scale. A lot crafters I imagine would want to do more than be someone's ammo monkey all the time.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of Aragon Alliance and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Paddy Fitzpatrick
The worst part is that these numbers are just for one fighter to do combat each day. Another thought, how will this eventually stimulate an economy when every crafter who makes ammo is sending it to their dedicated fighter character like a squire to their knight?

I'm just going to be frank, this is not going to work at all.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of Aragon Alliance and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Flari-Merchant
I think that where there is a disconnect that people are having is that:
1. Even 100% archer characters do not all use 1000 ammo per day. Some archers do not get played every day.
2. Charges for cleric/wizard batches take 2 times as long to craft but produce 2.5 times the ammunition that bowyers produce.
3. T1+3 ammo is pretty much equivalent to the damage that we are doing today without the ammo system.
4. T1+3 ammo can easily be produced fast enough for multiple characters to stay supplied.

edit: I am not opposed to things that are terrible calculations being addressed and fixed. I am just not sure that ammo which does significantly more damage should be easily and swiftly craftable.
HowardWdW
Note that I already took into account the difference between 100 arrows per recipe batch and 250 charges per batch.

T1+3 ammo = equivalent of damage done today. Yes…my level 20 bowyer can turn out perhaps 20,000 T1 +3 ammo in 24 hours. Just one problem (and this goes for the game as a whole) who is going to gather all the mats to make these?

This is another part of "game balance" I think is going to be challenged by reality. I just can't see the tens of 1000's of hours of gathering that will be required to sustain the game with 1000's of players playing. People who are paying $15 per month and get one account will want to be able to fight. Unless like the existing players they pay for multiple subs there will be a huge insufficiency of gathers, refiners and crafters.
Bob
T2 ammo is meant to be used somewhat sparingly and saved for tougher opponents, with T3 ammo saved for only the toughest of enemies. Admittedly, when spending 4-6 hours taking down Gathering of Legends, most of the opponents are tough, so you'll need a lot of decent ammo. Even then, top-end ammo should be used for larger encounters where speed is of the essence, with T1 or Salvage ammo being used for smaller encounters. That should make it easier for ammo to be produced in sufficient quantities.

Of course, if it does turn out that we've underestimated the amount of ammunition necessary for a fun experience, then we'll revisit the production numbers, but still with an eye for keeping the best ammmo scarce enough that you'll think twice before using it unnecessarily.
Flari-Merchant
As for who is going to gather all those materials to craft the ammo… I don't know. I think that even now there are going to be serious shortfalls in that area. If coin did not flow, generated "like magically" by killing things, some characters would need other sources of coin and gather materials to sell in the AH. But it does and they don't.

I agree that ToTs playing one character because each cost $15/month are almost surely going to want to play an active adventuring role. Perhaps not all but definitely most. There will be a definite shortage of gatherers and crafters if nothing changes.
You are a Troll
Except that T1+3 is not quite as powerful as currently implemented for casters/bow users that will soon require ammo. So, no one can easily craft ammo that puts those characters on equal footing with where they are currently. That's a problem.

How onerous will the chore be of swapping charge gems/quivers in and out to make sure you are not using T2 or better ammo for simply killing some goblin group for the fun of it? Another problem/annoyance.

One gatherer (or possibly more) and one crafter per combat toon (and refiner too if you want T3 ammo) just for ammo is absurd.

Maybe it's time to make ALL accounts DT accounts?
 
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