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Ammunition

HowardWdW
Having been the one to raise the whole thing about gatherer/refiner/crafter adventurer ratio being an issue I do agree that I believe there is a serious game flaw here.

Troll's point that after all this work and hassle on ammo the arrow/charge users are going to mostly be limited to either less damage (salvage/makeshift) ammo or equivalent to now damage with T1+3 is valid. The whole point of ammo was that it was going to re-balance things for ranged folks so that they were once again competitive with melee in damage. This does not seem to be achieving that objective in a realistic game fashion.

If the T1+3 damage were where balance was achieved perhaps that would work (I still have questions about the gathering required) and then T2 and T3 ammo taking longer to craft and having more limited availability but doing HIGHER than "normal" damage would then make sense. The ranged folks have the potential to do more damage than melee but at a cost. I still think the T3 ammo craft time is absurd for the gain in damage.
Edam
I am reserving my opinion on ammo till I get to try it on the live server.

One thing to factor in however is ranged attacks are no longer rooted allowing a lot more tactical options, especially solo.
Bob
The goal was always that ammo made ranged characters do damage/effects similar to those of melee characters, but only when using ammo roughly as good as that character's weapon. That's actually pretty imbalanced, being able to do just as much damage but from a much safer distance, so making that an expensive proposition is important. Fortunately, even T2 +0 ammo should make T3 characters more effective than they are now, and should be available in reasonable quantities. T3 ammo should be rare, and used only when needed. Still, we'll keep an eye on things and see how the balance feels in-game.
Flari-Merchant
I think that, bottom line, unless materials can get from nodes to crafters in large quantities and much lower prices than currently then ammunition (even T1) will be too expensive to be even close to reasonable.

When I look at what I can likely sell the raw materials needed to craft Cold iron arrows for and add some for refining and then crafting, I see a price for one Cold Iron Arrow +3 being between 8 and 10cp.

Edit for math error
Bob
Bringslite-Dominion Soldier
I think that, bottom line, unless materials can get from nodes to crafters in large quantities and much lower prices than currently then ammunition (even T1) will be too expensive to be even close to reasonable.

When I look at what I can likely sell the raw materials needed to craft Cold iron arrows for and add some for refining and then crafting, I see a price for one Cold Iron Arrow +3 being between 8 and 10cp.

Those prices sound about right. Ultimately, the big test will be seeing whether prices overall settle into a reasonable equilibrium where the price for enough appropriate ammo to kill mob X is reasonably lower than the value of everything looted off that mob. If not, then that will imply that we underestimated the demand for ammo, or possibly that other assumptions we made about the game's economic system need revisiting. At 8-10cp for T1 +3 ammo, and perhaps 2-3cp for T1 +0 and 14-15 cp for T2 +0, I think the loot at various levels should hit that mark right now, but we'll have to see what price fluctuations kick in as features like this get rolled out.
You are a Troll
So, its going to cost me approximately 1 gold per day in ammo to be slightly less effective than I am now? (T1+4 being the *even* point in terms of damage dealt as stated by Bob).
Stilachio Thrax
You are a Troll
So, its going to cost me approximately 1 gold per day in ammo to be slightly less effective than I am now? (T1+4 being the *even* point in terms of damage dealt as stated by Bob).

Looks that way… not a good time to be ranged or a spellcaster.
Virtus et Honor

Steward of Ozem's Vigil, Lord Commander of the Argyraspides Iomedais
Bob
You are a Troll
So, its going to cost me approximately 1 gold per day in ammo to be slightly less effective than I am now? (T1+4 being the *even* point in terms of damage dealt as stated by Bob).

Well, assuming you go through 1000 T1 +3 arrows/charges each day, and pretty much just stick to that ammo, then that's fairly accurate. Instead, I'd recommend using a mix of perhaps 600 T2 +0 ammunition and 5-600 T1 +0 ammunition for the same price, giving you the ability to be more effective than you currently are when needed in exchange for being slightly less effective when better ammo would be a waste. Ammunition essentially gives you another lever to ramp your effectiveness up and down as needed in exchange for the price of ammunition.

And, of course, I'd also recommend having some non-ammunition attacks to round things out. Specializing in only ammo-using attacks is a tough road unless your character has heavy backing from an organization that values your ability to be extra-effective with expensive ammo. For example, your company or settlement may be willing to support your ammo-use in exchange for clearing high-level escalations more quickly and safely. Or they may be willing to provide high-level ammunition for PvP, where some extra damage could make a huge difference. Without that backing, a more rounded character is probably a more effective option overall.

Flari-Merchant
The costs have a great deal to do with the lack of gatherer become seller. More characters selling means competition and costs are likely to become more reasonable.

There isn't a silver bullet to make this happen but I believe that less magical coin generation would go a long way toward players seeking other ways to get their hands on coin. Might encourage more gathering and selling….
Bob
Bringslite-Dominion Soldier
There isn't a silver bullet to make this happen but I believe that less magical coin generation would go a long way toward players seeking other ways to get their hands on coin. Might encourage more gathering and selling….

I tend to lean toward a mix of more coin sinks and more items that various roles benefit from but can't make themselves (such as harvesting kits) that will hopefully get sold at auction houses. Admittedly a lot of those items will just get shared out by companies and settlements, but ideally some of them will find their way to auction houses for purchase with coin.
 
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