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Line of Sight

Bob
There's a new build up on Zog that introduces Line of Sight for all attacks. It works pretty similarly to being out of range, in that attacks won't light up until the game decides both that you're in range of your target and that there's nothing blocking your attack. Mobs also won't attack until both conditions are met. If you fire off an attack while out of range or lacking line of sight, the attack will be queued up and will fire off as soon as the game decides both conditions are met, just as it previously did for attacks queued up while simply out of range.

The things that block line of sight are basically the same things that block movement, like terrain, objects with collision on them (buildings, tents, crates, trees), and other creatures/characters. Line of sight is checked the same way in both directions, so if A has line of sight to B, then B should have line of sight to A. This generally seems to be working pretty well, but we've noticed a few cases where mobs manage to attack when a character can't attack back without stepping a tiny bit to the right or left. We're looking into ways to improve on that, but it feels good enough now that we'd like to let you all give it a try to see what you think about the system overall.

One interesting side-effect of adding this is that the mobs tend to naturally spread out a bit more as they jockey for position. That adds a nice dynamic touch to PvE combat. They also no longer stop in the middle of buildings, firing out through the walls while melee characters can't get to them. It does affect both melee and ranged attacks, but it's obviously more of an issue for ranged attacks to deal with given the higher likelihood of more obstacles over greater distances.

The build on Zog doesn't have anything other than Line of Sight added to it, so you can easily compare combat on Zog to combat that's currently on the Live servers. If you need access to Zog to try this out, just contact customer.support@goblinworks.com and I'll get you set up.

Hobson Fiffledown
So, with this new LoS-ish idea, it's a condition which must be met before the feat lights up and can be used?

Once the green light is on, you can fire a feat off and it will hit its target regardless of what happens after that? Can I be fired at just before I finish my sprint around a corner, only to be hit by the attack when I am out of sight?

Do targets stay targeted if they are not in LoS but meet other target conditions? (I think think yes by the description)

Regarding using feats, do we still have 360 degrees of all-seeing sight? If the computer sees a path, can I still target-follow and fire at things when they are behind me.

Have you tested poptarting? This sort of sounds like it's allowing poptart phalanxes to me.
This space for rent.
Stilachio Thrax
Is there partial cover? How does Line of Sight work with the Z-axis? If I pop behind a rock that isn't tall enough to block me completely, does LoS get blocked by an invisible vertical column extending to the sky or am I completely exposed or something in between?
Virtus et Honor

Steward of Ozem's Vigil, Lord Commander of the Argyraspides Iomedais
You are a Troll
What is *poptarting* please?
Stilachio Thrax
You are a Troll
What is *poptarting* please?

I think he means: queue an attack while having cover, jump out of cover and the attack fires, then jump back behind cover, repeat until opponent is dead or runs off. You can quickly attack and your opponent has little or no time to respond unless they are doing the same.
Virtus et Honor

Steward of Ozem's Vigil, Lord Commander of the Argyraspides Iomedais
Flari-Merchant
I find myself wondering if that is a poor or cheap tactic or fair game. It seems like a way and a reason for what cover is all about. The "auto-hit target" situation we are in makes it a bit cheesy, but that isn't the fault of the players. It is the design of the combat system.

Guy is exposed and other guy uses cover to advantage. Does anyone else see it as a craptastic tactic or a reasonable tactic? Keep in mind that I am not a PVP experienced player.
Decius
Whether moving into and out of cover is too useful probably depends a lot on the immobile adjustment to ranged attacks.
Flari-Merchant
Decius
Whether moving into and out of cover is too useful probably depends a lot on the immobile adjustment to ranged attacks.
Do you mean the coming, planned adjustments or are you suggesting that there should be a ranged attack penalty vs moving targets? I understand the former but I also I like the idea of the latter.
Maxen
I think "poptarting" would/should work both ways. If the enemy (PvP or PvE) has you targeted, it should be able to queue an attack too and fire it off as soon as LoS conditions are met. If you do that against an enemy that doesn't have you targeted, I consider that 'sniping' and totally fair in game play. If would make it a much more fluid battlefield since more players/monsters will be moving to find, meet, or break of LoS conditions.

Back to the original scenario, for a simultaneous attack, make it interesting by allowing the player/monster with the higher Reflex roll to allow their attack to hit while the other misses (or does less damage since all attacks 'hit' in this game.)
Bob
Stilachio Thrax
Is there partial cover? How does Line of Sight work with the Z-axis? If I pop behind a rock that isn't tall enough to block me completely, does LoS get blocked by an invisible vertical column extending to the sky or am I completely exposed or something in between?

Line of Sight is determined from roughly the center of the attacker to the center of the target. It's just a Yes or No determination, so there's no such thing as partial cover.

The coverage provided by a rock is dependent on the invisible collision model attached to the rock. Usually that will be shaped and sized somewhat similarly to the rock, but it is often very simplified (more of a box or sphere). They were generally built for blocking movement or for making items clickable rather than for blocking attacks, so there will probably be some oddities until we can revisit those. Fortunately, most things don't have invisible collision models going to much higher than themselves. In general, if you can move through something, you can attack through it. Mobs, on the other hand, can move through lots of things that players can't, but they still won't be able to attack through them.
 
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