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Line of Sight

Bob
Hobson Fiffledown
So, with this new LoS-ish idea, it's a condition which must be met before the feat lights up and can be used?

Yup.

Hobson Fiffledown
Once the green light is on, you can fire a feat off and it will hit its target regardless of what happens after that? Can I be fired at just before I finish my sprint around a corner, only to be hit by the attack when I am out of sight?

Yes, for now we don't bother to re-check line of sight in the middle of the attack. In part, that's due to worries that doing so would give too much advantage to quick attacks and that slower attacks would become way to aggravating around cover.

Hobson Fiffledown
Do targets stay targeted if they are not in LoS but meet other target conditions? (I think think yes by the description)

Correct, we don't use LoS to decide whether or not you can target an enemy.

Hobson Fiffledown
Regarding using feats, do we still have 360 degrees of all-seeing sight? If the computer sees a path, can I still target-follow and fire at things when they are behind me.

Correct, directional facing still isn't checked.

Hobson Fiffledown
Have you tested poptarting? This sort of sounds like it's allowing poptart phalanxes to me.

We've mostly been testing basic functionality at this point. The reason to put it up on Zog is to start finding deeper balance issues. My guess is that because LoS is so reciprocal in our implementation, tactics like this will have limited effectiveness, but we'll just have to see.
Hobson Fiffledown
Stilachio pretty much covered poptarting. The queue up and auto-fire part is scary, I didn't even think of that. Other PFO game and combat basics make me think it might not be a bad issue. I look forward to playing with this new LoS when it goes live.
Popcorn phalanx (just because): Run the clerics on two different feat cadences (heal, group heal, buff, and speed), call and focus on targets under 20. Their main tactical goal is blocking LoS. Crowd control and dps glass cannons poptart from behind the moving healwall to control and cover 20-35.

C C
GC(CC)
GC(D)
C C

Dreamin' the dream of battlefield tactics…

What if a PvP death sent you back to your home settlement? smile
This space for rent.
Flari-Merchant
Hobson Fiffledown
Stilachio pretty much covered poptarting. The queue up and auto-fire part is scary, I didn't even think of that. Other PFO game and combat basics make me think it might not be a bad issue. I look forward to playing with this new LoS when it goes live.
Popcorn phalanx (just because): Run the clerics on two different feat cadences (heal, group heal, buff, and speed), call and focus on targets under 20. Their main tactical goal is blocking LoS. Crowd control and dps glass cannons poptart from behind the moving healwall to control and cover 20-35.

C C
GC(CC)
GC(D)
C C

Dreamin' the dream of battlefield tactics…

What if a PvP death sent you back to your home settlement? smile
Why Hobson! I am shocked! PVP conflict would not be grueling gear destruction festivals. Battles could be resolved in less than an hour. People would have to have respect for their own hp's. Sounds like madness! smile
You are a Troll
Hobson Fiffledown
Stilachio pretty much covered poptarting. The queue up and auto-fire part is scary, I didn't even think of that. Other PFO game and combat basics make me think it might not be a bad issue. I look forward to playing with this new LoS when it goes live.
Popcorn phalanx (just because): Run the clerics on two different feat cadences (heal, group heal, buff, and speed), call and focus on targets under 20. Their main tactical goal is blocking LoS. Crowd control and dps glass cannons poptart from behind the moving healwall to control and cover 20-35.

C C
GC(CC)
GC(D)
C C

Dreamin' the dream of battlefield tactics…

What if a PvP death sent you back to your home settlement? smile

AND you dropped some of your precious T3 gear on the ground?
Hobson Fiffledown
I think that's still planned for with threading. That'll be neat, but that's about it. Players have years worth of gear in the vaults, with dozens of platinum to buy more with. No one will adopt combat tactics because of gear loss.

BL touched on it best: Field combat in PFO is a horrible slog of not-fun. It's an attrition race to see which side is having the least fun. This is mainly because character death during field battles means nothing. Nothing. To no one (except the people who take ego hits).

LoS-ish is nice too, but it's not going to change the basic failings of field combat in the game. I am a bit worried that this LoS is the only combat-centered item on the road map to open enrollment. What happens when GW brings in their 10,000 players and field combat is still an unfun slog?

Make PvP deaths send the player back to their home settlement.
Make players visit the home settlement of a company to join that company (reduce the company hop effect a little).

Players could still ride the PvE loot train nonstop, like they do, with shrines everywhere.
Everyone would still have to PvE grind the PvP gates and follow the LG realm combat rules.

But…

Players would have to use good battlefield tactics, or suffer the consequences.
Land would be harder to claim and defend the further away from your settlement you are.
People could finally deal a heavy blow to long distance resource poachers.
It would actually feel dangerous out in the world again.

I mean, if we're looking at simple changes to try and make combat in PFO fun…
This space for rent.
You are a Troll
Hobson Fiffledown
I think that's still planned for with threading. That'll be neat, but that's about it. Players have years worth of gear in the vaults, with dozens of platinum to buy more with. No one will adopt combat tactics because of gear loss.

REALLY? Wow…I must be doing something very wrong then…smile

In any event, I fully support that idea of PVP deaths sending you back to your home settlement!!!
Hobson Fiffledown
Oh yeah, that's not me with the dozens. Not even close. But…if you hunt legends non-stop for months on end (and control most of your own supply train).

Even so, most people will just wear their crappier gear into large battles, knowing it will get trashed. You either have the coin and don't care, or don't and mitigate the loss. It doesn't stop the infinity run from the shrine back to battle.
This space for rent.
Bob
Hobson Fiffledown
What if a PvP death sent you back to your home settlement? smile

Our original design thoughts for this were along the lines of steadily increasing your respawn delay each time you died in relatively quick succession, or increasing the respawn delay at a particular shrine whenever it's getting used heavily. It could also be possible to then select a further away shrine to avoid the delay, allowing you to get back to playing but making it take even longer to get back to the battlefield, so it would mostly be an option for those who've decided to quit the battlefield for the moment.

None of that is on the roadmap at this point, though there's a good chance that we'll at least take a quick look at the way characters log in and use shrines as part of the polish phase, since they're related and do cause some problems, particularly while new users get used to how that all works.
Flari-Merchant
I fully agree with you guys on porting back to town when nixed in PVP conflict(killed by an enemy player).

Two things:

1. Bob has written about such possibilities and, though I don't know how far they have looked into it actually, he said that it seemed it would be a pretty complex bit of coding. <–If I recall his thoughts correctly.

2. If it can be done, it might be more interesting were players able to build temp(but destructible) shrines in available places more near to battles. Do you remember all of the "Twice Blessed" KS packages? Some early thoughts were that those powers would allow for player built shrines… Back to home base for a starter iteration would be great.

As an aside: I still think that actual desirable loot (sometimes called gear) should also drop. At least some and not necessarily all but at least to give impetus toward rewarding PVP at all levels. I truly believe that such things would improve the "capture for subscription percentage" of the "Tens of Thousands" by more than just a little bit.
Hobson Fiffledown
Just rip the bandaid off and send 'em all the way home, Bob. smile

You guys posted a road map and are delivering it in a timely manner. That's fine progress as far as I'm concerned. However, the in-game response and critique of field combat being a boring slog of gear-wear has been pretty unanimous. I know the forum crowd doesn't rep the player en masse, but I don't think I've ever seen any positive reviews of PFO field combat (ever. Ever. since day 1 EE, from any current or unsubbed player). That affects player retention as well as new player interest (for those who do research before subbing). I do hope you look into this if time allows. It would be nice to get back online to the "hard is fun" and "choices matter" ideals.
This space for rent.
 
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