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Line of Sight

Flari-Merchant
Hobson Fiffledown
Just rip the bandaid off and send 'em all the way home, Bob. smile

You guys posted a road map and are delivering it in a timely manner. That's fine progress as far as I'm concerned. However, the in-game response and critique of field combat being a boring slog of gear-wear has been pretty unanimous. I know the forum crowd doesn't rep the player en masse, but I don't think I've ever seen any positive reviews of PFO field combat (ever. Ever. since day 1 EE, from any current or unsubbed player). That affects player retention as well as new player interest (for those who do research before subbing). I do hope you look into this if time allows. It would be nice to get back online to the "hard is fun" and "choices matter" ideals.

-Would be nice to fear "death" a little bit and for there to be consequences to it that really matter.
-Would go both ways for fighting on the "borderlands" of territories.
-Would give groups a "defender's advantage" the closer the enemy gets to the settlement, which helps curb "Aggressive Blob" problems for smaller land holding groups.
-Though I know the intent is to make PfO very different than most MMO's of the past, this is not an uncommon PVP feature and PfO is already very different. It might be comforting to have a few "old school" recognizable mechanics as well as new concepts.

Edit: Thread Derailed smile
Bob
Can't make any promises on when we'll be able to get to some of these things, but most of the points being raised here were very much part of the discussions about how death/respawning/shrines/threads should all work together to make force projection and superior tactics truly consequential on the battlefield, while still not making occasional deaths too aggravating. Hopefully we'll be able to take some initial steps on those fronts as part of the last two more polish-oriented updates, but there will still be some hard prioritization choices to make at that time. If they don't make the cut, they'll certainly be high on the list of things to work on after that.
Duffy Swiftshadow
Jumping on the derailed train…

Sending home as the default death option just doesn't work very well. You think combat sucks now, every single death tossing you all the way home means no PvP and PvE is only done near your home. If you do bother to try to do some far from home, if you have one screw up, your out for at least a few mins up to 30 mins if really far from home.

That said, if there were temporary options that allowed local spawning, but said option could be destroyed, you now have something resembling a tug-of-war in PvP with clear objectives for both sides to "win" and PvE has to pay a bit of a cost to safely engage escalations across the map and a target the locals could go after to get rid of them. Now your talking about engaging mechanics and offering avenues to want to engage, versus mechanics that would make no one want to engage unless they have a huge blob.

Edit: Or something more akin to resurrecting downed party members on the spot could work, but even that feels to abstracted away from the lack of tactical/strategic aspects of PvP/PvE.
Bunibuni
I think I have two gold saved up. With one toon doing the adventuring, paying for the other alts' training levels is mighty expensive.

You are a Troll
Hobson Fiffledown
I think that's still planned for with threading. That'll be neat, but that's about it. Players have years worth of gear in the vaults, with dozens of platinum to buy more with. No one will adopt combat tactics because of gear loss.

REALLY? Wow…I must be doing something very wrong then…smile

In any event, I fully support that idea of PVP deaths sending you back to your home settlement!!!
Crafting! Gathering! Monster Killing! Exploring! Politicking! That's us in a nutshell! Ranged Attackers, crafters and gatherers come join the Holy Magicks company based out of High Road. Our main motto is "Death Thru Superior Fire Powers!"
Hobson Fiffledown
(In this dream 'send them back' scenario) I think PvE deaths should use the current respawn system. I don't think any disincentive to PvE will fly in this game. Also, I don't think that would be very fun. Yes, it would really increase the danger of being rolled too far away from home. Thankfully, we have all of these high security hexes everywhere to avoid that very thing.

Paying for, or even offering a closer respawn point just means that everyone will use the closest respawn point. A new asset for respawn which can be captured or destroyed would just be another boring layer of Player versus Door. If people are afraid of losing hexes because combat isn't a numbers game and that it requires tactics and coordination, maybe they can stay home and pick flowers in their safe zones. smile

With protected hexes and weekly PvP windows, no one is going to get steamrolled in one night. Didn't we already estimate that most settlements will take weeks or months to get a siege presence into their core6? Why not let the individual battles be quicker, more fun, and decisive? Looking into other respawn options is good. A slow respawn could help, tying it in with the threading is good(heck, I've even not-sold one of my smallholdings in case that is a thing). But nothing does the trick like a hard stop. Everyone on your side gets sent home from the battle early? You lost. Go take it out on an escalation near your settlement.
This space for rent.
Flari-Merchant
You couldn't stop a group's making deals with your "supposed allies" for a closer place to respawn without even more enthusiasm numbing "no no rules" anyway. Also something could possibly be said for… if you are feuding me you can't respawn at a shrine in my or a true ally's controlled territory.

There may be some answers there and possibly even more depth to the political and surprise hex takeover game. "Why do you think they took that hex? It doesn't make sense!" or does it?

Edit: Even a solution as simple as players can only repawn at a shrine once in a certain period of time. Next time Zog chooses the next closest shrine for You!
Stilachio Thrax
*hops on the derail train*

I'd like, in addition to PVP death sends you to your home settlement, a Forward Operating Base holding. You can only deploy it in an empty hex for standard holding influence and bulk. Once placed, you can respawn there after a PVP death, and it has the vault and mule options of a standard holding. It has no guards and will rely on players to defend it. Increased +'s on it increases the effort required to capture/destroy it.
Virtus et Honor

Steward of Ozem's Vigil, Lord Commander of the Argyraspides Iomedais
Flari-Merchant
Bob
Hobson Fiffledown
What if a PvP death sent you back to your home settlement? smile

Our original design thoughts for this were along the lines of steadily increasing your respawn delay each time you died in relatively quick succession, or increasing the respawn delay at a particular shrine whenever it's getting used heavily. It could also be possible to then select a further away shrine to avoid the delay, allowing you to get back to playing but making it take even longer to get back to the battlefield, so it would mostly be an option for those who've decided to quit the battlefield for the moment.

None of that is on the roadmap at this point, though there's a good chance that we'll at least take a quick look at the way characters log in and use shrines as part of the polish phase, since they're related and do cause some problems, particularly while new users get used to how that all works.
As you can see Bob, we are passionate about getting PVP to be more enjoyable than it has been. It seems obvious that some of us WANT to PVP. We just find it lacking and cumbersome and clunky and too drawn out for fun small battles so far. We know that you are stuck with what you have for now and have pretty small amounts of unplanned time for things, but we will probably still flare up on the subject here and there. smile
Hobson Fiffledown
I think we're all OK with LoS and are moving on. We're just railing at this point, no de needed. smile
This space for rent.
Flari-Merchant
Hobson Fiffledown
I think we're all OK with LoS and are moving on. We're just railing at this point, no de needed. smile
Clever!
 
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