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Settlement Warfare Rules

Mistwalker
Bob
record the target settlement's current bulk resource stockpiles, settlement level, PvP windows and settlement structures.
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Once war is declared, the defending settlement is under some restrictions:

The settlement level can be raised or lowered, but only lowering it will affect the settlement's calculated defenses.
Bulk resources can be deposited or withdrawn, but the remaining amount of bulk resources that need to be destroyed before the buildings start to take damage can only go up on days where the settlement is not surrounded by active siege equipment, and then only by 100 bulk resources per day per type of bulk resource for each neighboring hex that doesn’t have an active siege engine in it.
The days and times during which PvP windows start must remain unchanged unless both the attackers and defenders agree to a change.

I have some concerns with the above.
1) The attacker has all of the control, even before they have placed all 6 siege engines around the settlement.
-someone declares war on you, and you aren't allowed to prepare any defences?

2) This increases Settlement importance and lowers Company importance.
If you only look at the bulk goods in settlement vaults, you are probably missing a lot of bulk resources that are in the settlement.
Companies are what gather bulk resources. Part of the set up was supposed to allow some importance to the companies, for the settlements to want to recruit them (and get some of their bulk resources).
I have always seen companies pay into the settlement upkeep vault, but not put all of their resources there - if they do they give up control of the resources - and being in the central vault, it could easily be all taken by one individual (say taken on the Monday afternoon, with emails to Paizo going out on Tuesday, and the war starting on Friday - with little to no bulk resources in the settlement vault).

I would rather see the rule about not being able to raise the level of the settlement take effect once all 6 core hexes have been taken and siege engines placed.

I would rather see Paizo take a look at all of the bulk resources in the settlement (not just the settlement vaults, but the company and personal vaults too) once all of the siege engines have been placed.
Bob
Mistwalker
1) The attacker has all of the control, even before they have placed all 6 siege engines around the settlement.
-someone declares war on you, and you aren't allowed to prepare any defences?

The biggest reason things are this way is because attacker's can't really know whether or not they're capable of sieging a particular settlement unless they know the settlement's defenses in advance. The attackers could have their siege engines all ready to go, only to find out that the improved defenses mean that they needed to make higher tier/upgrade siege equipment.

The second biggest reason was to give another reason for settlements to run consistently at the same settlement level, and particularly to provide an added bonus to running at settlement level 20. Support certainly incentivizes higher levels, but there's currently little reason to run above 19 unless folks need level 20 training that week. With defenses having to be up in advance, every time you drop your settlement level to save on upkeep for a week, you risk attackers choosing that as the time to declare a war.

Mistwalker
2) This increases Settlement importance and lowers Company importance.
If you only look at the bulk goods in settlement vaults, you are probably missing a lot of bulk resources that are in the settlement.

Largely, since these rules have to be handled by a GM (meaning me), I wanted to keep things relatively easy on myself. Having to look in multiple vaults and remove bits and pieces from each of them would be time-consuming, where just using the settlement upkeep vault will be pretty quick.

In some ways, this could actually be helpful to individual companies in terms of their relationships to their settlements. Currently, there's very little incentive for a settlement to seek more bulk resources from each of its companies than it requires for short-term needs. If the settlement wants to get all those resources into the upkeep vault to act as defenses, then they'll have to reward the more productive companies somehow to make that happen. If your settlement isn't willing to reward your company appropriately, perhaps another settlement will.
Flari-Merchant
You could compromise and take your snap shot of Bulk Stockpiles when the last hex has a siege setup but keep the Settlement Level lock(as written), couldn't you?

Otherwise doesn't this conflict with?:
Bob
Bringslite-Dominion Soldier
You decided to skip reinforcement of Bulk if the ring of the siege is broken? Even though an open approach is a typical way that sieged positions have a chance to get reinforced?

That's in there, though admittedly buried in a pretty long sentence and with some limits on what can be brought in:

  • Bulk resources can be deposited or withdrawn, but the remaining amount of bulk resources that need to be destroyed before the buildings start to take damage can only go up on days where the settlement is not surrounded by active siege equipment, and then only by 100 bulk resources per day per type of bulk resource for each neighboring hex that doesn’t have an active siege engine in it.

So the more you can break the surrounding ring, the more bulk resources you can bring in.
Flari-Merchant
The Attacker has some pretty tough obstacles already, what with the high influence cost and regular expense of holdings for Siege camps and supply lines. Still, I have some questions as actually declaring war can paralyze a defender for anything from 6 weeks and on indefinitely.

What happens to the Influence invested in the siege hexes if the Attacker is defeated?

Is there any penalty, for the attacker, if they declare war and fail to establish their full siege requirements? They have just "frozen" a player settlement for at least 6 weeks(level wise). Seems like a pretty powerful tool…

Is there or should there be a cost, above what is written now, to declare "war" on a settlement's existence and then fail? I mean more than not being able to do it again for one month?
Bob
Bringslite-Dominion Soldier
You could compromise and take your snap shot of Bulk Stockpiles when the last hex has a siege setup but keep the Settlement Level lock(as written), couldn't you?

Otherwise doesn't this conflict with?:
Bob
Bringslite-Dominion Soldier
You decided to skip reinforcement of Bulk if the ring of the siege is broken? Even though an open approach is a typical way that sieged positions have a chance to get reinforced?

That's in there, though admittedly buried in a pretty long sentence and with some limits on what can be brought in:

  • Bulk resources can be deposited or withdrawn, but the remaining amount of bulk resources that need to be destroyed before the buildings start to take damage can only go up on days where the settlement is not surrounded by active siege equipment, and then only by 100 bulk resources per day per type of bulk resource for each neighboring hex that doesn’t have an active siege engine in it.

So the more you can break the surrounding ring, the more bulk resources you can bring in.

That is a good point. I could allow additional bulk resources to be brought in at that same rate both before and after the siege is established. Essentially, whenever there's a gap in the lines, goods can be brought in, whether that gap is there because the siege equipment wasn't placed yet or because placed siege equipment was deactivated.

I mostly just didn't want to allow unlimited bulk resources to be brought in after the war declaration, but I could be okay with limited amounts being brought in, particularly if the defenders have to earn most of that right by slowing down the placement of the siege engines.
Bob
Bringslite-Dominion Soldier
What happens to the Influence invested in the siege hexes if the Attacker is defeated?

Influence investment in siege equipment is identical to influence investment in holdings or outposts. If the siege equipment is taken over or destroyed, the attacking company would get back most of the influence, minus the standard loss percentage.

Bringslite-Dominion Soldier
Is there any penalty, for the attacker, if they declare war and fail to establish their full siege requirements? They have just "frozen" a player settlement for at least 6 weeks(level wise). Seems like a pretty powerful tool…

There's nothing in the rules like that right now, though my intention was that they do at least burn some influence as a result of feuding the defender. However, I now note that the feud requirements don't kick in until the last bit of establishing the siege, so I should probably put in something saying that similar feuds are required to keep the 6 week establishment window open.


Bringslite-Dominion Soldier
Is there or should there be a cost, above what is written now, to declare "war" on a settlement's existence and then fail? I mean more than not being able to do it again for one month?

That's an interesting possibility. There could be a War Upkeep Cost, and half could be returned to the victor. That could also lessen the sting of being attacked, at least when you're able to successfully defend the settlement.
Flari-Merchant
There isn't any intention to make settlement wars more of a pain in the butt! Just that since it is largely GM run, it can make as much "realistic aspect sense" as you want to have to deal with. smile

Thank You for taking some of this into consideration.
Bob
Apologies for taking so long to get back to this. Between getting EE 14 out the door, all the updates that followed, and the preparation for EE 15, this stayed on the back burner much longer than intended. However, I've now updated the original post with two quick things based on the last round of feedback:

  • Added that the attackers have to maintain feuds against the target while establishing the siege as well.
  • Added a Weekly Warfare Deposit, half of which goes to the victor.

Take another quick look, post any remaining feedback, and then we'll set a date to start this system up.
Bringslite
@ Bob

Will a settlement not be pretty much a level 9 or 10 (for counting building hps) by the time that all the Bulk cushioning is gone and the Structure Destruction phase is under way or does the settlement keep it's level as recorded when the siege started?

Edit: Referring to this:
Bob
Structure Destruction

During the structure destruction phase, the amount of damage that gets through each day is passed on to the settlement's structures. There is no multiplier for successive weeks of damage.

Each day, damage is applied to only the smallest size of buildings still remaining, with damage applied to one building at a time until it is destroyed. Damage to individual buildings carries over from day to day. On any given day, at most 4 Infrastructure, 3 Small, 2 Medium or 1 Large structure can be destroyed. Once that limit is reached, or once the last building of a particular size is destroyed, no more damage is applied to any additional buildings that day.

The amount of damage each structure can take is based on its size and Settlement Level:

•Infrastructure: 5 x Settlement Level
•Small: 15 x Settlement Level
•Medium: 40 x Settlement Level
•Large: 100 x Settlement Level
Will not be disturbed if this isn't answered until after Christmas! smile
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Bob
Bringslite
Will a settlement not be pretty much a level 9 or 10 (for counting building hps) by the time that all the Bulk cushioning is gone and the Structure Destruction phase is under way or does the settlement keep it's level as recorded when the siege started?

All the calculations that use Settlement Level will get recalculated if the Settlement Level drops, and there's a good chance it will start to drop once the bulk destruction phase is finished. However, while the rules for replenishing bulk limit the amount of bulk resources that can be used as part of the bulk destruction phase, there's nothing blocking the settlement from bringing in additional supplies to pay for upkeep. Also, once the bulk destruction phase starts destroying really large amounts each day, it may be in the settlement's interest to remove the last bits of bulk from the upkeep vault so that it doesn't all get destroyed, so that the structure destruction phase takes place with higher defenses.

To be honest, most settlements reaching this point should have seriously considered suing for peace at an earlier stage, or may have already abandoned the settlement and preferred to force the attackers to go through the motions before taking over. If the attackers managed to surround you, and can keep you surrounded long enough to deplete your initial bulk resources, it's going to be pretty hard to break the siege during the structure destruction phase. On the other hand, the defenders can make the attackers pay for their victory, in siege costs, destroyed buildings, and in the gold needed to keep the buildings they preserve, and this seemed like a reasonably balanced way to give the defenders some control over how much that will cost the attackers. In the end, pushing those costs on to the attackers may be worth giving up the potential advantages of a negotiated settlement.
 
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