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Line of sight in pve

Iram Thelbane
I have noticed that when i am targeting a mob and have no line of sight, the mob can make me some damage…

So is line of sight only works for player and not for monsters?
Maxen
That has not been my experience. I’ve run behind trees and watched enemy archers have to move to get LOS on me again.
plopmania
I am guessing this might be due to network latency. Since Iram is european (if memory serves), the ping is around 400ms, give or take some. That is plenty of time to move to a cover and still get slapped.
Flari-Merchant
It is seeming reasonable so far as a first try. It gets a little frustrating around objects and when the melee fighters get crowded together but that does seem as things should be in those circumstances. The obnoxious edge cases (like the Nhur Crystals) will get polished, bit by bit and I think it will work out fairly well. smile
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Flari-Merchant
What I would like since this is Tab Target is that the system was somehow more intuitive. Like if I target an ogre and can't attack because another ogre moves his large posterior into my way, a hit on Tab would target that new ogre instead of some other nasty that I also can't attack for some reason.
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Stilachio Thrax
As a melee guy, one thing I'd really like is for melee AOE or Streak attacks to go off whether or not a mob/player is blocking LoS to the target. Last night I was targeting a duergar sage with Cleave and a champion moved in front of the sage, preventing the activation of the attack. It's Cleave! Its supposed to hack everything in a cone in front of me- the champion's position shouldn't have mattered to that type of brute force attack.
Virtus et Honor

Steward of Ozem's Vigil, Lord Commander of the Argyraspides Iomedais
Bob
Line of Sight always checks in both directions, so a mob won't shoot you unless it thinks you can also shoot it. However, separate checks are being made on both the client and the server, and they can sometimes disagree. In some cases that's just a brief disagreement due to the inherent lag in any networked game, or the disagreement could last longer if there's excess lag for whatever reaso). Those are tricky for us to do anything about, but there are things we've done (and we can do more over time) to keep that from causing too many problems. In other cases it's caused because certain things are handled just a little differently in either data or code on the server and client. Those latter cases are just plain bugs and we'll track them down and fix them as we find them. The crystal turrets and training dummies were examples that we found and fixed while testing EE 14, while the Nhur Athemon towers weren't found until after EE 14 and were fixed for EE 14.1.

Technically, when an attack shows as disabled on the Action Bar due to Line of Sight, that's because the client says something is in the way. If the server disagrees, then the mob will still be able to attack even though it looks like you can't, because the mobs don't ask the clients what they think. However, when an attack is disabled for this reason in the UI, we handle it the same as we do ranged attacks, where you can go ahead and queue the attack up so that it will happen as soon as Line of Sight is re-established. Those subsequent checks are all handled on the server, not on the client, so your attack will actually take place right away. That keeps the consequences of client/server disagreements smaller, thought they'll still clearly cause confusion. As we get reports of this happening to varying degrees under different circumstances (when mobs wind up partially underground, when certain kinds of mobs are bunched up, all the time with certain mobs), we'll look for patterns and get things fixed up.

On a side-note, just to clarify what exactly is checked for Line of Sight, we basically try to draw a line from the center of the attacker to the center of the target and see if other things (terrain, models with collision on them, other combat entities like mobs or characters). Some mobs are a little weird and their centers might not be calculated quite where you'd think they'd be. We're cleaning those up as we find them. We're also considering whether "center" is really the most appropriate point, and not perhaps something more like "roughly the height where most of their attacks come from," which is perhaps torso level for humanoids and center for things like turrets. Center was an easy implementation to start with and does a pretty good job, but we'll certainly polish it as we get more feedback. We'll do the same for any issues we find with particular collision models (some objects have overly-large collision models made when all we cared about was blocking movement, which need to be revisited now that they're used for Line of Sight), or anything else that affects the Line of Sight calculations.
Hobson Fiffledown
Can we just get (or do we have already?) a target closest enemy button?
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Bob
Hobson Fiffledown
Can we just get (or do we have already?) a target closest enemy button?

If you don't have anything selected, then Tab should generally select the closest thing (enemies when in combat, enemies plus others when out of combat). If memory serves, you could hit Esc to deselect everything and then hit Tab to select the closest thing. There are some oddities in the system like not selecting guards or mules (enemy or not, in combat or out) with tab, which we'd like to fix when we can, but generally the system works along those lines and Esc followed by Tab might give you what you want.

If you're asking for something like "regardless of what I've currently got selected, select the nearest thing," then that's possible. Likewise, it would be possible to make something like Tab with the limit "whether in combat or not, only select enemies." We could achieve something similar by adding a key that lets you go into combat mode without triggering any attacks, which would change Tab to doing just enemies and could also be useful to avoid any delay on your initial attack for drawing a weapon. A single hotkey for "Nearest Enemy" could still be useful if players are regularly hitting key-combos to achieve the same effect, or if hitting those combos in emergencies was problematic, but otherwise it would probably be best to stick with the combos and reserve hotkeys for other future uses.

If you're asking for a hotkey that's limited to just things within Line of Sight, that's also possible to add (nothing in the current system provides anything like that), but it could mean skipping over an enemy that could easily be brought back within Line of Sight by just moving a bit. Things get trickier the more smarts we add to the system, but sometimes it's worth it and we're definitely open to suggestions.
Hobson Fiffledown
As a melee-who-moves type, the number of attacks missing due to LoS (while in groups of enemies) is really high. But I think we can get used to esc tab. Like how stop is sx. smile It's the simplest solution, it's just frustrating because by the time you need to switch, you're already three LoS blocked melee attacks in. If it's actually a big deal, you have to get the heck out or heal up by then.

Losing a target is a good part of this LoS, and hunting down lost targets of interest is a fun option. Some attacks like Cleave which Stilachio mentioned, could override LoS and add a lot of flavor. There are some strong melee attacks with range that would fit right in. Just one per weapon though, like the melee version of running attack not slowing bow users.

It would be nice for melee to have 1 or so meters not affected by LoS. If I can slap you, I should be able to stab you. Just thicken up all the walls a little first. smile
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