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Structure/Settlement Upkeep

Bob
Flari-Merchant
Edam
TL&DR
…. 700 of each bulk a week gets you level 20 support but very low level training/facilities. If you want to go to the other extreme and get level 20 training/facility on everything 24/7 (equivalent to a current level 20 settlement) you will need to find 1475 of every resource a week instead.
Interesting as I had thought that was a set of game-able results that GW was most interested in avoiding for many reasons…

Those are in fact the correct numbers you were looking for. And you're correct that we've moved away from making the support requirements quite as harsh. We decided quite a while back to look into ways to let settlements have more support than was strictly available from the structures themselves, as long as that support was at a reasonable price. Yes, you can get pure support at level 20 for half the cost of actually having the structures, but then you have to train elsewhere, and you can't charge other people for making use of your structures. That should make for a reasonable tradeoff, and still make settlements that just want their support for PvP purposes have to work for it.

And, if it doesn't turn out to be quite restrictive enough, we could always add some requirements along the way so that your settlement has to be somewhat developed before you can even choose the higher settlement levels. Probably overkill at the moment.
Bob
Flari-Merchant
I suppose one thing that puzzles me is the knowledge that one or very few settlements could easily provide all needed training to 20 for the entire server. The incentive, in a case like or similar to that outcome, does not encourage the server to strive for their own +5 buildings or to live where those building are.

There are some vague plans to eventually put some limits on just how much crafting/training/etc can be done at a particular facility, which would push for the creation of additional settlements when too many people were using the limited structures available. We'd probably only want to prioritize that if we found the world had a whole lot of players using just 1-3 big settlements.

Meanwhile, it's certainly true that there would be a lot of advantages to everyone cooperating on just a small number of high-level settlements, but we expected there'd always be some who'd want to rule their own kingdoms, and so far we haven't been disappointed on that front.
Flari-Merchant
Well it certainly is true that no one(I know of) has reached out publically or privately about any sort of "Building Arrangement" hehe, so I suppose that your observations and assumptions about us wanting to be our own little kings are spot on. smile
Flari-Merchant
Bob
Flari-Merchant
Edam
TL&DR
…. 700 of each bulk a week gets you level 20 support but very low level training/facilities. If you want to go to the other extreme and get level 20 training/facility on everything 24/7 (equivalent to a current level 20 settlement) you will need to find 1475 of every resource a week instead.
Interesting as I had thought that was a set of game-able results that GW was most interested in avoiding for many reasons…

Those are in fact the correct numbers you were looking for. And you're correct that we've moved away from making the support requirements quite as harsh. We decided quite a while back to look into ways to let settlements have more support than was strictly available from the structures themselves, as long as that support was at a reasonable price. Yes, you can get pure support at level 20 for half the cost of actually having the structures, but then you have to train elsewhere, and you can't charge other people for making use of your structures. That should make for a reasonable tradeoff, and still make settlements that just want their support for PvP purposes have to work for it.

And, if it doesn't turn out to be quite restrictive enough, we could always add some requirements along the way so that your settlement has to be somewhat developed before you can even choose the higher settlement levels. Probably overkill at the moment.
Thinking about things… I agree that the effort to get support to lvl 20 in an easier fashion than was previously shown to us is probably a good move at this time of lower population levels.
Bob
Here are the upkeep numbers for each Target Settlement Level:

  • 9: 5 of each bulk good, 100 copper coins
  • 10: 8 of each bulk good, 160 copper coins
  • 11: 15 of each bulk good, 270 copper coins
  • 12: 31 of each bulk good, 430 copper coins
  • 13: 58 of each bulk good, 630 copper coins
  • 14: 102 of each bulk good, 860 copper coins
  • 15: 171 of each bulk good, 1110 copper coins
  • 16: 278 of each bulk good, 1370 copper coins
  • 17: 440 of each bulk good, 1630 copper coins
  • 18: 675 of each bulk good, 1880 copper coins
  • 19: 1000 of each bulk good, 2110 copper coins
  • 20: 1400 of each bulk good, 2310 copper coins

Cougar's math for a Keep +0 and University +0 in a level 20 settlement was largely correct technique-wise, with the exception that we recently switched to averaging the bulk resources used by the structures before subtracting them from the settlement level upkeep. I just added that to the original outposts, and we make the calculations fairly clear on the new Upkeep Management window available at the Keep toolbox. Here's a run through the same calculations with these new numbers:

Keep +0: Bulk Food 1, Bulk Ore 1, Bulk Stone 2, Bulk Wood 1, Copper Coin 50
University +0: Bulk Food 1, Bulk Ore 1, Bulk Stone 2, Trade Goods 1, Copper Coin 50

For structures alone, upkeep comes to Bulk Food 2, Bulk Ore 2, Bulk Stone 4, Bulk Wood 1, Trade Goods 1, Copper Coin 100.

That's a total of 10 bulk goods, so the average is 2 for each of the 5 bulk goods. Always round the average down if needed.

As a sidenote, that's not even enough bulk goods to cover settlement level 9 with the new numbers, though it is enough coin. As a result, another 3 of each bulk good would be required just to keep the settlement from shutting down, since you can't choose to run lower than settlement level 9.

For settlement level 20, the upkeep is 1400 of each bulk good and 2310 copper coin.

First, subtract 2 (the structure bulk average) from 1400 to get 1398, then divide 1398 by 2 to get 699 of each bulk good. Similarly, subtract 100 from 2310 to get 2210, then divide 2210 by 2 to get 1105 copper coin. Always round the halved result up if needed.

Finally, add 699 to each of the bulk goods and 1105 to the copper coin that you're already paying for the structures. That gives you the final cost of Bulk Food 701 (2 + 699), Bulk Ore 701 (2 + 699), Bulk Stone 703 (4 + 699), Bulk Wood 700 (1 + 699), Trade Goods 700 (1 + 699), Copper Coin 1205 (100 + 1105).
Flari-Merchant
Thanks for the numbers, Bob.

Can you tell us what % of training fees will go to "sink hole" so we can know what part goes to a settlement? smile
Bob
Flari-Merchant
Can you tell us what % of training fees will go to "sink hole" so we can know what part goes to a settlement? smile

The plan is that training taxes will go on top of the standard costs already set for training. The standard cost, and the support surcharge, are sinks like they are now. The settlement can then set a percentage of that training cost to charge as added taxes, anywhere from 0% to 200%, all of which goes to the settlement. NPC settlements will also start charging taxes, which will be on the high side to give player settlements the opportunity to compete with them even for lower-level feats. I was thinking NPC taxes could be in the range of 25%, maybe even higher, to give player settlements lots of room to maneuver. The taxes at NPC settlements would also be sinks.
Nactillius
Will there be a posted upkeep cost for the settlement (with the keep I assume) and each structure in the toolbox similar to the holdings?
Bob
Nactillius
Will there be a posted upkeep cost for the settlement (with the keep I assume) and each structure in the toolbox similar to the holdings?

There sure will. If you're a settlement leader, all the structures (including the keep) will have upkeep info on the Structure Management Window that comes up when you click on the toolbox. For the keep, there's a button to bring up Settlement Management. From there, you can select Manage Upkeep to to see your Current Structure Upkeep, Target Settlement Level Upkeep, Additional Upkeep to Attain Target, and Total Upkeep Cost. This is also where you would go to manually pay your upkeep if your settlement is shut down, in which case the amounts listed will also be prorated.
Apyx
Will we be able to set multiple tiers for training taxes ie one rate for settlement members, one rate for allies and one rate for everyone else or set one rate for T1 training and then other rates for T2 and T3?
 
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