Cookies Disclaimer

I agree Our site saves small pieces of text information (cookies) on your device in order to authenticate logins, deliver better content and provide statistical analysis. You can adjust your browser settings to prevent our site from using cookies, but doing so will prevent some aspects of the site from functioning properly.

Taxation and Fees

NightmareSr
Azure_Zero
NightmareSr
….
I personally hate the 5% sales tax minimum (coin sink) due to the fact that it encourages us all to do individual trades outside of the AHs. However if the 5% remains in NPC AHs, then each Settlement really gets to set a range of 0-5% instead of the 0-10% due to competition with NPC AHs.
….

Actually I believe NPC Auction Houses and Taxes are Higher then 10%
To encourage PC settlement Auction Houses and facilities.
My actual complaint is that the AH sales tax range is 5-15% due to the 5% base being applied to all AHs.
Thornkeep is 10% total (5% base + 5% applied)
Carpe Noctem for allied is 9% total (5% base + 4% applied to allies)
I thought I saw that Caer Coedwig was 20% but I must be mistaken (I was tired) but it is over the 10% of Thornkeep for unallied sellers.
So I guess that makes me wonder if you have Talonguard set to 8% meaning a 13% sales tax for unallied or if it is set to 3% to result in the 8% total sales tax?
The AH is convenient and nice but even if I sell in a settlement that is getting zero coin from my sales it still costs me 5% coin for my sales. Which really encourages me to trade with players for coin instead of us any AH, and I don't think that is good for the game.
I would be fine with the 5% mandatory base sales tax if it went towards settlement upkeep or something but having it just disappear seems like a waste to me.
- Wandering gatherer (NightmareSr#2669 on discord)
Bob
NightmareSr
Is there a reason that NPC settlements are at "reasonable" tax rates, instead of the max taxation?

Part of the intention was to leave some room for player settlements to set "unreasonable" tax rates for non-members if they didn't want to be particularly welcoming, but still wanted to let non-members use their facilities for a price.

We also wanted to set the NPC rates high enough to nudge players toward player settlements, but low enough to not be exasperating for new players who don't have tons of money.

Also, player settlements can offer better facilities than NPC settlements, so they may be able to get away with higher rates in some cases. There are upgraded, higher-tier items you can only sell at player auction houses, so you could theoretically have higher sales taxes there. Since crafting taxes are based on crafting time, better (i.e. faster) crafting facilities can charge a higher crafting rate and still wind up charging the same or less in actual taxes for a given project. If you specialize in training higher-tier feats, you could charge a higher training tax knowing that players have limited choices available for training those feats.

Fortunately, those NPC values are also easy to adjust as we see how players react to different rates.
Azure_Zero
Bob can you give out the Tax Equations so I can confirm the Tax Rates of Talonguard, as I don't think their is a base 5% tax, just the Rate of WHAT is set in the setting.

Also can you print out into the OP the Current Tax rates of NPC settlements?
Bob
NightmareSr
Azure_Zero
NightmareSr
….
I personally hate the 5% sales tax minimum (coin sink) due to the fact that it encourages us all to do individual trades outside of the AHs. However if the 5% remains in NPC AHs, then each Settlement really gets to set a range of 0-5% instead of the 0-10% due to competition with NPC AHs.
….

Actually I believe NPC Auction Houses and Taxes are Higher then 10%
To encourage PC settlement Auction Houses and facilities.
My actual complaint is that the AH sales tax range is 5-15% due to the 5% base being applied to all AHs.
Thornkeep is 10% total (5% base + 5% applied)
Carpe Noctem for allied is 9% total (5% base + 4% applied to allies)
I thought I saw that Caer Coedwig was 20% but I must be mistaken (I was tired) but it is over the 10% of Thornkeep for unallied sellers.
So I guess that makes me wonder if you have Talonguard set to 8% meaning a 13% sales tax for unallied or if it is set to 3% to result in the 8% total sales tax?
The AH is convenient and nice but even if I sell in a settlement that is getting zero coin from my sales it still costs me 5% coin for my sales. Which really encourages me to trade with players for coin instead of us any AH, and I don't think that is good for the game.
I would be fine with the 5% mandatory base sales tax if it went towards settlement upkeep or something but having it just disappear seems like a waste to me.

We do need coin sinks, and sales fees are a generally effective one. It's true that you can avoid them easily by making personal trades, and that's something we always want to allow. The trick is for us to set the sales fee low enough that it reflects the value in being able to make sales when you're not logged in, and for not having to manually handle each transaction, while still leaving room for player settlements to put additional sales taxes on top of that. It's possible that 5% is too high, or that we need more granularity (like the ability to handle tenths of percentage points, rather than just full percentage points). It's certainly worth looking into at some point.
Bob
Azure_Zero
Bob can you give out the Tax Equations so I can confirm the Tax Rates of Talonguard, as I don't think their is a base 5% tax, just the Rate of WHAT is set in the setting.

The total Sale Fee is the base 5% plus the settlement tax rate. When you put an item up for sale, the UI shows that broken down as in the following example:

Sale fee is 10% (including settlement tax of 5%).

Azure_Zero
Also can you print out into the OP the Current Tax rates of NPC settlements?

Done.
Maxen
NightmareSr
Azure_Zero
I set Talonguard's Taxes Very Low for the Auction House at the Moment with All three being Below 8%.
Heck Everything is Low Tax (Under 8% Confirmed) in Talonguard and Corbenik even for Outsiders.
Even crafting items is cheap, 1 copper for 12 hours of crafting for Outsiders, and 1 copper for a day and a half for Allies.

Now once the Keep is upgraded, I'll need to increase the taxes some (like 2%) and that'll be it.

Only blacklisted; settlements, companies and players get no tax cause they can't do anything in Town to begin with.
Well thanks for confirming that. Caer Coedwig is the highest sales tax I have seen for me currently, so it might make sense for me to haul stuff over to Talonguard or Corbenik for sale instead. smile

Hey, I’ve got mouths to feed! But seriously, I will take a look at that. The original intent was to discourage non-allied AH sales when the Knights of Glory and Beer we’re considering the game. I had planned to list my items at very reasonable prices, but I jacked up the non-allied taxes to discourage players from wiping out my stocks. I’ll reconsider the tax rates.
NightmareSr
Bob
NightmareSr
Is there a reason that NPC settlements are at "reasonable" tax rates, instead of the max taxation?

Part of the intention was to leave some room for player settlements to set "unreasonable" tax rates for non-members if they didn't want to be particularly welcoming, but still wanted to let non-members use their facilities for a price.
This makes sense to me, although I don't think all the Settlement leaders understand that if they set their sales tax to 10%, they are now 5% over what Thornkeep is set at.
Bob
We also wanted to set the NPC rates high enough to nudge players toward player settlements, but low enough to not be exasperating for new players who don't have tons of money.
This is the part that makes little to no sense to me, since it is not costing any player coin from their pocket to sell something, it just lessens the amount that the new player receives from the sale. In theory I suppose it would make sense but if the new player does what I did early and leaves TK before in a company and goes to a player settlement, they will see a higher sales tax being applied and just go right back to TK. Then once in a company and player settlement the 5% base is enough to just drop mats/etc in the company or settlement vault and take coin or equipment from the same vault, essentially side-stepping the public AH to use their own system. (Not that I know of anyone who allows this within company vaults but in theory it could be easily allowed if you trust your members enough.
Bob
… Fortunately, those NPC values are also easy to adjust as we see how players react to different rates.
Yes there are a lot of other variables that would play a role in the decision process for Settlements to decide on various tax rates, and I hope other players share their thoughts as well since I don't want any changes based just on one player opinion (even if it is my opinion).
Bob
We do need coin sinks, and sales fees are a generally effective one. It's true that you can avoid them easily by making personal trades, and that's something we always want to allow. The trick is for us to set the sales fee low enough that it reflects the value in being able to make sales when you're not logged in, and for not having to manually handle each transaction, while still leaving room for player settlements to put additional sales taxes on top of that. It's possible that 5% is too high, or that we need more granularity (like the ability to handle tenths of percentage points, rather than just full percentage points). It's certainly worth looking into at some point.
That is the biggest thing that I do not understand. It isn't really a coin sink since it just means I need to sell a bit more to get the same coin. It isn't taking coin away but I suppose it is slightly reducing the rate at which I gain coin.
The bigger issue I see is the NPC default sales tax of 10% right in the middle. Settlements essentially set 3 different rates: Members, Allies, and Non-Allies, therefore the instinctive settings they use would be Best rate = Members, Better than NPC = Allies, and Worse than NPC = Non-Allied. So in having the NPC set at the midpoint, then the Settlements are trying to squeeze 2 rates at the low end and one rate at the high end. Ideally I think NPC sales tax should be 7.5 or 8% so it is at 13% total and gives Player Settlements the 5-13% for a beneficial range and a 13-15% for a discouraging range. But that is just my opinion and hopefully there are more opinions out there.
I just don't feel like the AH system is working very well and started wondering if the sales tax was playing a role in this or if it just doesn't matter to others.
- Wandering gatherer (NightmareSr#2669 on discord)
NightmareSr
Maxen
Hey, I’ve got mouths to feed! But seriously, I will take a look at that. The original intent was to discourage non-allied AH sales when the Knights of Glory and Beer we’re considering the game. I had planned to list my items at very reasonable prices, but I jacked up the non-allied taxes to discourage players from wiping out my stocks. I’ll reconsider the tax rates.
Well if that was your intent then it would have backfired big time, because no matter what the "sales" tax is set to I would still be able to purchase items for the "very reasonable prices" I would just be charged a premium if I wanted to sell items at a very reasonable price.
Although I think that would be a wonderful addition to set a sort of pricing adjustment based on the buyers relation to the settlement, but I would think that would require large effort to add to the game.
- Wandering gatherer (NightmareSr#2669 on discord)
Bob
NightmareSr
Bob
We also wanted to set the NPC rates high enough to nudge players toward player settlements, but low enough to not be exasperating for new players who don't have tons of money.
This is the part that makes little to no sense to me, since it is not costing any player coin from their pocket to sell something, it just lessens the amount that the new player receives from the sale.

Very true, the cost is indirect and only hits the seller. In that respect, it nudges sellers to offer their goods at player settlements with lower tax rates, though only if they notice that the rates are better elsewhere. Player settlements can of course publicize those lower rates on the forums, in their founding company descriptions, or at their town criers. We'd also like to add other in-game ways to make it easier to see the advantages of traveling to other Auction Houses eventually, but not sure when we'll be able to get to that kind of thing.

NightmareSr
Bob
We do need coin sinks, and sales fees are a generally effective one.
That is the biggest thing that I do not understand. It isn't really a coin sink since it just means I need to sell a bit more to get the same coin. It isn't taking coin away but I suppose it is slightly reducing the rate at which I gain coin.

It's a coin sink in the sense that it takes some coin out of the game entirely, not necessarily away from any character in particular. It's true that the seller winds up with more coin than they started with and thus doesn't necessarily register it as a "loss," but the important thing is that the seller and the settlement wind up with less coin in total than the buyer actually paid, so some coin from the transaction is just plain gone. That helps keep the overall money supply from getting out of hand.
NightmareSr
Bob
It's a coin sink in the sense that it takes some coin out of the game entirely, not necessarily ……. That helps keep the overall money supply from getting out of hand.

Wow sorry for some reason I didn't think that through before posting about it today. I didn't realize it is to curb inflation, but then just ran my mouth today. So kill Ninjas and etc. get good chunk of coin added to player base, then sell items in AH and get coin taken out of player base. Actually it is probably the best place to suck out coin, cause the transfer is still positive and a convenient mechanic anyway (sell without being logged in). Sorry for confusion.

Bob
Azure_Zero
Also can you print out into the OP the Current Tax rates of NPC settlements?
Done.
What is the "OP" ?
- Wandering gatherer (NightmareSr#2669 on discord)
 
You must be logged into an enrolled account to post