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Demotion of unsubscribed characters

Smitty
Flari-Merchant
I don't think that it is such a big issue with companies. There are tools available for that as you have pointed out. A settlement is a different animal, however, and MUCH more is at stake.

Yes a founding leader should be able to demote leaders. Still, I lobby that an unsubscribed leader that is uncommunicative (virtually), should be replaceable by a subscribed and active leader if the Settlement all wants it so. There is no tool for that.

I totally get that Paizo does not want to ruffle the feathers of any players that might return. I do not get why a nonsubbed and totally missing leader should be in charge of a settlement and that there be such a potential back door to wrecking so much effort.

We are talking about demoting a character here and then using the tools that we have to set security levels, not about erasing accounts.
@ Flari
Read this again- it was 2 years ago Dec 2016 - last I heard it was still valid..
“The only situation so far where we allow one player to request that another player be demoted from company leader is when the official settlement owner requests that a leader of the settlement's founding company be demoted, and that's only allowed because it's kind of essential to being a settlement's tyrant. ….. “

After that was written- Bob made sure every settlement had an active subbed character attached to it. that person is on some list as the leader of the settlement.
I am inferring from that that whoever is on bobs current list is the defacto settlement god( they can be a tyrant, and pretty much do what they want, they own the settlement).

That person can kick any company-
That person can demote any leader in their own company.
They are the top dog of the settlement -
They are required to be active accounts - maybe not all of them are playing but in GW eyes they run that settlement..
If that needs to change - then talk it over with that person- have them notify GW of a change and get a new top dog..

If they are truly AFK and gone - but are still paying GW - they are still active in eyes of GW and to the rest of the map -
If you are living in a settlement like that and that is too much risk for you - think about moving - and do better in the future about who you trust to be your settlement leader..

You may not like the tools you are working with - but they exist.
Flari-Merchant
Read this again- it was 2 years ago Dec 2016 - last I heard it was still valid..
“The only situation so far where we allow one player to request that another player be demoted from company leader is when the official settlement owner requests that a leader of the settlement's founding company be demoted, and that's only allowed because it's kind of essential to being a settlement's tyrant. ….. “


What you quoted up there is no longer the case according to Bob in an earlier post in this thread. Unless he is just referring to "COMPANY LEADERS".
I am specifically referring to SETTLEMENT leaders now, though that was not so clear back in the dim days of this thread (for which I apologize). There are all manner of ways in game to knock a company out.

Never suggested that a leader run a settlement in any way other than how they like.

Never suggested that subscribed players should have ANY problem. My problem is with very old unsubscribed accts and the characters that are both unsubscribed leaders of active settlements and seem to be beyond contact without paying a P.I. Or are just plain unresponsive…
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
Flari-Merchant
@ Smitty

Along these lines, do you really feel that it is right that a settlement could be wrecked by "Arch Enemy" because he bought an old acct that has not been subbed for as many as 2 years ago?

Is that how you envision a great territorial control MMO?
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
Flari-Merchant
@ Bob
Before things get too nasty and we all stop even reading posts before we trash them, is this still a valid procedure for handling Settlement Leadership? I want to be sure that I am not just misunderstanding the issue here.

"Read this again- it was 2 years ago Dec 2016 - last I heard it was still valid..
“The only situation so far where we allow one player to request that another player be demoted from company leader is when the official settlement owner requests that a leader of the settlement's founding company be demoted, and that's only allowed because it's kind of essential to being a settlement's tyrant. ….. “

Thanks, Bob
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
Bob
Flari-Merchant
Before things get too nasty and we all stop even reading posts before we trash them, is this still a valid procedure for handling Settlement Leadership? I want to be sure that I am not just misunderstanding the issue here.

"Read this again- it was 2 years ago Dec 2016 - last I heard it was still valid..
“The only situation so far where we allow one player to request that another player be demoted from company leader is when the official settlement owner requests that a leader of the settlement's founding company be demoted, and that's only allowed because it's kind of essential to being a settlement's tyrant. ….. “

Yup, I continue to honor requests from settlement owners to demote founding company leaders.

I'm also writing up a proposal for handling leadership challenges for all companies. I'll post it here for discussion shortly.
Flari-Merchant
Bob
Flari-Merchant
Before things get too nasty and we all stop even reading posts before we trash them, is this still a valid procedure for handling Settlement Leadership? I want to be sure that I am not just misunderstanding the issue here.

"Read this again- it was 2 years ago Dec 2016 - last I heard it was still valid..
“The only situation so far where we allow one player to request that another player be demoted from company leader is when the official settlement owner requests that a leader of the settlement's founding company be demoted, and that's only allowed because it's kind of essential to being a settlement's tyrant. ….. “

Yup, I continue to honor requests from settlement owners to demote founding company leaders.

I'm also writing up a proposal for handling leadership challenges for all companies. I'll post it here for discussion shortly.
lol My apologies to all those that I frustrated because I was… dumb. Especially Bob and Smitty.
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
Bob
We eventually want to provide company/settlement settings that handle leadership challenges and succession in-game, but we won't be able to get to that for a while. Until we're able to tackle that, I'd like to propose the following rules for leadership challenges:


For a variety of reasons, sometimes a company's leadership (in whole or in part) stops playing an active role in the game and becomes a detriment to that company. If you feel that one or more of the leaders in your company have become inactive and need to be demoted, you can challenge their leadership by sending an email to customer.support@goblinworks.com stating your company’s name, your character’s name (must be a member of the company in question and must be on an active account), and the character names of any leaders you’re challenging.

First, all leaders of the company, challenged or not, active or not, will be notified of the challenge and reminded of the rules for leadership challenges. The character challenging the leaders won't be identified, though it may be obvious to those challenged. The message will also include a reminder that any leader can request to have themselves demoted at any time if they'd like to speed the process up and help clean up the company's leadership roles. The character challenging the leaders won't be identified, though it may be obvious to those challenged.

Any time before the challenge process is completed, any active leader can unilaterally veto the challenge. Any challenged leaders who've already been demoted will remain demoted, but no other leaders will be demoted unless they personally request it.

We will next check to see if the challenged leaders have been logged into the game over the last four weeks. Those who have will retain their leadership. Those who have not logged in will be contacted and warned that if they do not log that character in within two weeks, or protest the challenge within that time and subsequently succeed with that protest, they will be demoted.

To protest the challenge, a challenged leader simply needs to reply to the notification email stating that they protest the challenge. This will remove the option of logging in to avoid being demoted, so it should only be done if the challenged leader understands and accepts the risks involved. If the protesting leader is on an active account, then the protest succeeds and the leader will not be demoted. If not on an active account, all leaders of the company on active accounts will be asked to approve or disapprove of demoting the challenged leader. If there are no active leaders, no responses within two weeks, or a single disapproving response, the protesting leader will remain as a leader. Otherwise, the protesting leader will be demoted.

Any challenged leaders who don't log in or successfully protest their challenge, as well as any leader who requests to be demoted, will be demoted to Recruits. If there are no remaining leaders, we will work with the highest-ranked active members to select new leadership.

To keep this from becoming too much work, we’ll be handling a limited number of challenges on any given business day, and handling none at all on particularly busy days. All remaining challenges will be queued up based on the order they’re submitted. Multiple challenges to the same company will be lumped together with the earliest challenge, and frivolous or unreasonably-repetitive challenges will be rejected, at our discretion.


Comments/Questions?

Edit 1: Added the ability of active leaders to veto the challenge at any time, and added a two-week time limit for approving/disapproving any protests.
Flari-Merchant
+1 even though I had surrendered the "company" level problem so as not to distract you guys from you other work loads. A break now and then from that load will be healthy for you, maybe?
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
Maxen
Bob,

As an interim fix, that seems fair. Your proposal gives everyone in a leadership position the opportunity to speak up. It benefits active accounts. It does not require the challenged leader to renew their subscription to protest the challenge. It also provides an option for leaders on inactive accounts since any one vote not in favor of demotion will halt the process. Anyone who votes in favor of not demoting an inactive leader is obviously vouching for them.

Seems fair to all involved.

Maxen
Father Bronin
Four weeks seems pretty short. If I lose internet access for 6 weeks I can be removed as a company leader?
 
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