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The Seneschal Issue

Flari-Merchant
Any ideas on a fix for this yet, Sir Bob?

Social Points are pretty hard to get to raise Seneschal levels. Without some decent lvls, crits on codex collections are beyond difficult. Need crits on those to make upgrades to buildings.

Thus we have a problem that can't be solved as of now. Unless I (and my group) are missing something here.
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
Lisa Stevens
While I agree that the whole Social Points issue needs to be looked at, I do want to point out that it is pretty easy to make +5 buildings with only +3 codices and a touch of Azoth if you have a high level Engineer. If you have all +5 crafted materials, you actually don't even need the Azoth if you use +3 codices. So no crits are needed.
Flari-Merchant
Lisa Stevens
While I agree that the whole Social Points issue needs to be looked at, I do want to point out that it is pretty easy to make +5 buildings with only +3 codices and a touch of Azoth if you have a high level Engineer. If you have all +5 crafted materials, you actually don't even need the Azoth if you use +3 codices. So no crits are needed.
Codices can only be made at +0
I had thought that we couldn't use Azoth for Codex Collections. If I am wrong, well then I have no concerns smile
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
Kenton Stone
We have no problems with most structures the problems arise when 2 codex collections are required.
Instead of having 3 mats and 1 collections it becomes 2 mats and 2 collections. This makes it mathematically problematic.
Taking an Engineer of level 20 with a score of 245 when geared up fully.
Lets use the +5 lab as an example

* 17 x Cleaning Supplies
* 2 x Workers Tools
* Alchemist Codex Collection x 3
* Engineer Codex Collection X 3

Now if we Make all 17 Cleaning Supplies at +5 and all Workers Tools at +5
We still need 5 of the Codex Collections to be +4 and one to be +3

To Get a +4 Codex collection one must make a +3 and hope for a crit.
A +3 Codex Collection requires 33 codices. That is [330 T1], [110 T2] or [33 T3]
Probability suggests that with Azoth you will get 1 x +4 for each 7 attempts.
So if luck is with us it will take
[6930 T1], [2310 T2] or [693 T3] for 3 x +4 collections.
[4620 T1], [1540 T2] or [462 T3] for 2 x +4 collections with a +3 also gained in the process.

This is after building the +2 - +4 versions.

Maybe we are not getting enough recipes but we seem to be a few thousand recipes short.

Someone explain how this is going to be possible or where my math is wrong.smile

Kenton Stone.
Bob
I don't have a great answer on the social issue yet, so for now perhaps I should fall back on something similar to what we've done with Spellcraft. In that case, we temporarily dropped the achievement requirement for advancement, since we don't offer the related achievements yet. As a result, you can advance a lot more easily in Spellcraft than you'll eventually be able to, but that's balanced by the fact that Spellcraft currently isn't as useful as most other skills. The same is kind of true for Seneschal, since refining codex collections is really only meant to be a small part of what Seneschal is for. As a result, it probably wouldn't be unfair to temporarily allow players to advance through those ranks more easily, either by temporarily lowering the Social requirements or by temporarily raising the amount of Social points provided by the Seneschal achievements. Either solution would be pretty obviously temporary. When we can get to more Social achievements, we'd rebalance things again. I'll add some notes to look at doing that with EE 15, unless any of you can point out some flaws I'm missing.

On the Feature Feat front, it looks like the best solution would be to just add it to Passionate in the Workshop with all the other refining skills, since I think it was meant to be added there and just didn't happen. Again, I'll try to get that in for EE 15, unless some of you want to talk me out of it.
Flari-Merchant
Kenton Stone
We have no problems with most structures the problems arise when 2 codex collections are required.
Instead of having 3 mats and 1 collections it becomes 2 mats and 2 collections. This makes it mathematically problematic.
Taking an Engineer of level 20 with a score of 245 when geared up fully.
Lets use the +5 lab as an example

* 17 x Cleaning Supplies
* 2 x Workers Tools
* Alchemist Codex Collection x 3
* Engineer Codex Collection X 3

Now if we Make all 17 Cleaning Supplies at +5 and all Workers Tools at +5
We still need 5 of the Codex Collections to be +4 and one to be +3

To Get a +4 Codex collection one must make a +3 and hope for a crit.
A +3 Codex Collection requires 33 codices. That is [330 T1], [110 T2] or [33 T3]
Probability suggests that with Azoth you will get 1 x +4 for each 7 attempts.
So if luck is with us it will take
[6930 T1], [2310 T2] or [693 T3] for 3 x +4 collections.
[4620 T1], [1540 T2] or [462 T3] for 2 x +4 collections with a +3 also gained in the process.

This is after building the +2 - +4 versions.

Maybe we are not getting enough recipes but we seem to be a few thousand recipes short.

Someone explain how this is going to be possible or where my math is wrong.smile

Kenton Stone.
That is Many recipes, not even mentioning expendables(more difficult to get in quantity) for combat training buildings,,,,. smile
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
Lisa Stevens
Kenton Stone
Someone explain how this is going to be possible or where my math is wrong.smile

Kenton Stone.

You should use Azoth to get the rest of the way to +5 for building the +5 Lab. If you can get halfway to +5, then Azoth will bring you the rest of the way to +5 without using that many +4 codices. Of course, I haven't tried this in practice yet.

-Lisa
Flari-Merchant
Lisa Stevens
Kenton Stone
Someone explain how this is going to be possible or where my math is wrong.smile

Kenton Stone.

You should use Azoth to get the rest of the way to +5 for building the +5 Lab. If you can get halfway to +5, then Azoth will bring you the rest of the way to +5 without using that many +4 codices. Of course, I haven't tried this in practice yet.

-Lisa
I could have sworn that either we could not use Azoth to craft Codex Collections or we could not use Azoth to help complete buildings. I am not our engineer or the seneschal to give it a check

Can anyone confirm or deny these things?
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
Edam
Flari-Merchant
Lisa Stevens
Kenton Stone
Someone explain how this is going to be possible or where my math is wrong.smile

Kenton Stone.

You should use Azoth to get the rest of the way to +5 for building the +5 Lab. If you can get halfway to +5, then Azoth will bring you the rest of the way to +5 without using that many +4 codices. Of course, I haven't tried this in practice yet.

-Lisa
I could have sworn that either we could not use Azoth to craft Codex Collections or we could not use Azoth to help complete buildings. I am not our engineer or the seneschal to give it a check

Can anyone confirm or deny these things?

  • Azoth are offered for codexes but do nothing.
  • I have no idea about codex collections, but Seneschal are refiners so if do they take azoth it would just be a better chance of a crit.
  • Holdings and outposts take azoth, i have made quite a few +5 watchtowers that way
  • The sub components of settlement buildings like workers tools, blessing etc and their sub-sub-components (yarn, bars, ingots etc) will all take Azoth
  • I have not tested it personally but have it on good authority you can make the actual settlement buildings with azoth

  • Note that things crafted with azoth do not give achievements and hence are no use as a crafting gateway
    harneloot
    Lisa Stevens
    Kenton Stone
    Someone explain how this is going to be possible or where my math is wrong.smile

    Kenton Stone.

    You should use Azoth to get the rest of the way to +5 for building the +5 Lab. If you can get halfway to +5, then Azoth will bring you the rest of the way to +5 without using that many +4 codices. Of course, I haven't tried this in practice yet.

    -Lisa

    If practically the only way to get +5 medium buildings in a settlements involves paying for and using Azoth, well, then that smells suspiciously like pay-to-win and doesn't seem like it is working as intended.
    Xyzzy - gatherer, yeoman archer, swamp monster.
     
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