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High sec hexes being low sec during PvP window?

Bringslite
Trying real hard here to see things from your perspective and they do seem difficult. I don't think that I have ever said anything different on that subject. You read what Bob wrote above when he chimed in above about PVP atmosphere, I assume? Somewhat vague but still a bit further from "anyone should be able to attack anyone, anywhere" than close. So he and his team and Lisa are probably who needs convincing on that score. I realize that by us discussing it you kind of are bringing up to them.

There are no objections to your ideas really(from me). So long as it remains a two-way system and is balanced, which you are proposing. If it ends up going too far though, like for instance those interested in High Sec probably will find little to no use in altering Low Sec hexes and that makes it unbalanced, it might break any kind of compromise between attracting PVP and nonPVP type players. If Paizo is cool with that, its a different matter. I have been through a few games that were more heavily random PVP centric and they were all fairly toxic, chased away builder types and turned into a "wolf only" environment. Would really hate to see that happen here, in this game that was supposed to be different…

I think that SThrax's post was to point out that the game is still a bit frustrating all around and no matter what your play focus is. That it is far from great from any viewpoint right now. We stay, I think, partly because we are invested and partly because long term the design is onto something that we have not seen before and that we do want to play.

"A button that you press" is exactly what you are proposing to counter security settings, though at least you are proposing that it should require effort.

Why should you have to conquer all the hexes around Ozem's to have your random PVP? We are mostly not in those hexes when we are playing. Seems like, knowing where attacking is off limits, your search areas for targets is actually smaller than it was before. This just makes little sense to me. Until the population grows, it will make little to no difference to null those hexes. We are not there 90% of the time. Best way to have a chance to see us there is to feud those hexes. Time and place all lined up for you. You focus on a few hexes that are just as empty but really more empty of players than those already of Med to Low Security. Baffles me.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Paddy Fitzpatrick
And we are back to this again? I thought this point was already settled.

Alright I got a question for you brings. Why is it that when my old crew were running around and being a nuisance it was not nearly as big an issue as it is now? There is something to be said for having an entire banditry play style that a number of us worked very hard to get in the game just rendered kaput.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Bringslite
Paddy Fitzpatrick
And we are back to this again? I thought this point was already settled.

Alright I got a question for you brings. Why is it that when my old crew were running around and being a nuisance it was not nearly as big an issue as it is now? There is something to be said for having an entire banditry play style that a number of is worked very hard to get in the game just rendered kaput.
All I am doing is pointing out that RIGHT NOW numbers of hexes that have to be searched by "Bandits" is actually less than it was before. I am not arguing that changes to what is the situation RIGHT NOW are not worth considering.

As far as I can tell, bandits running around is LESS of an issue right now. Previously you were no more annoying to us than you are presently. That's work you have to do to alter if you want to. In fact RIGHT now I feel it is less of a "Big Deal" now than it ever was. Previously we might go to war over a few members being ganked randomly. Now we are much less likely to take things so far. Time, Wisdom and a desire for less drama and far less waste of resources/time for small annoyances. So I don't grasp your question but I recognize that things may seem different, for some reason, from your POV.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Also for the camps idea, how about making them all make the hex med sec by default? That way we get a happy medium (get it?) between the extremes, makes it so high sec guys aint safe, low sec guys can't kill without rep penalties, but doesn't shut EVERYTHING down and flip it on its head?

Maybe add an extra coin cost to decide the security level if you like. That way they have to pay a coin cost for security just like the hex owners.

You have different tiers for different durations, have them destructible, and either way give them the cooldown like other camps have. That should keep it less likely to be exploited.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Bringslite
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Also for the camps idea, how about making them all make the hex med sec by default? That way we get a happy medium (get it?) between the extremes, makes it so high sec guys aint safe, low sec guys can't kill without rep penalties, but doesn't shut EVERYTHING down and flip it on its head?

Maybe add an extra coin cost to decide the security level if you like. That way they have to pay a coin cost for security just like the hex owners.

You have different tiers for different durations, have them destructible, and either way give them the cooldown like other camps have. That should keep it less likely to be exploited.
Sure. Whatever they do is fine with me as long as it effects all as equally as possible in the end result. Corrects REAL existing imbalances and ends up improving the playability and attractiveness of this game.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Stilachio Thrax
@Paddy
I'm not sure how I feel about camps that undermine the choice of the hex owner in determining PVP status. It would have to have a very long cooldown, because I honestly don't believe most players who have things set to high sec will ever find it ok that their security level was changed. Think about it like this- how would you like it if a player could come along and drop a "Constable Camp" in your favorite banditry hex which eliminated all PVP in that hex despite your control and determined settings?

Although I don't believe you intend it to be so, it really could be used to grief other settlements. Especially if a group chained them to open large areas or constantly keep some hexes open. If I saw one go up once, I might not get too annoyed. If its up more than a few days, I will get annoyed and I'd likely look at retaliating against the owner's holdings (which is the exact opposite thing you've all been saying you want with PVP- low-grade, not-burn-stuff down skirmishing.)

In the end, you already have the means to engage in consequence free PVP against a group at any time and anywhere- its a feud. Nothing says you have to attack holdings with it, just use it to make it easier to attack. Losing some influence is a small price to pay for getting the type of PVP availability you want.
Virtus et Honor

Steward of Ozem's Vigil, Lord Commander of the Argyraspides Iomedais
Flari-Merchant
True. For a deposit of 100 and an end cost of a mere 25 influence, you can have an open feud for 4 days?

@ Bob,

Am I right about that Bob? Or is it just during exact PVP windows?
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
Paddy Fitzpatrick
And we are back to the feud thing again. Another point I thought was settled. Are we going in circle here?

I was just giving ideas about the camps. That's why I proposed them to be med sec by default. Also, the camps would last at most 10-30 minutes depending on tier. Making a long cooldown in the hex where another one of either type can't be placed by anyone would stop the problem of permacamps. I do see where some unintended side effects can come in though.

My preferred solution is what ive stated before which is adding and tweaking costs for maintaining the security to begin with. That way we avoid most of these issues altogether and if done right we wouldn't even need camps.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Flari-Merchant
I think that we are just speculating and trying to broaden options. Maybe those that don't like some ideas are voicing their opinions and stuff like that. Not all, even from the same group have the same opinions.

Stuff that is supposed to be normal on a forum.

Edit: You do believe that Paizo should get the most opinions on all ideas that they can and that it still doesn't mean they will do them whether we all agree here or not, don't you?
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
Bob
Flari-Merchant
True. For a deposit of 100 and an end cost of a mere 25 influence, you can have an open feud for 4 days?

@ Bob,

Am I right about that Bob? Or is it just during exact PVP windows?

Correct, feuds are active outside PvP windows.
 
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