Cookies Disclaimer

I agree Our site saves small pieces of text information (cookies) on your device in order to authenticate logins, deliver better content and provide statistical analysis. You can adjust your browser settings to prevent our site from using cookies, but doing so will prevent some aspects of the site from functioning properly.

Pathfinder Online will be ending operations on November 28, 2021. For more details please visit our FAQ.

Trade Outposts Need Major tweaks

Azure_Zero
As the topic says Trade Outposts need tweaks the BEST you could hope for is 7 Trade Goods in best hex which is Forest.
I could put up a Hunting outpost in the forest and Get 7 trade and 7 food, While in the plains I could get 11 trade and 3 food.
So Why would I want to put up a Trade outpost when there are Much Better options.
The problem is that Wood and Ore are exclusive hex ratings just as is Herds and Game are exclusive hex ratings.
So the Best rating is a quarter (5 units at +0 outpost), with the next ones being less then that and you end up never going past 10 units for +0 in a perfect forest hex

So this outpost needs some real tweaks before anyone even thinks of using it.

There are really only Two options;
1st: increase the Current percentages from 25% to 37.5%->50%
2nd: include EVERY hex rating and they are ALL raised from 25% to 33%

The first Option should be very easy to do as it'll only be a update to the current values of the Trade outpost.
Maxen
Just to be clear, are there hexes out there in the River Kingdoms where it would make sense to put up a Trade Outpost?
Edam
Keeper's have a trade outpost +5 in KP 5. It gives us 22 trade a day versus 15 food and 15 trade from a hunting outpost. The hex is actually a +5 watchtower but a +5 trading post holding would boost that to 34 trade a day from one outpost or 56 trade a day from two.

We could be getting 48 or so ore from a mining outpost instead, but we had a surplus of ore and a shortage of trade goods at the time we placed it. I think trade goods are meant to be a bit sub-optimal in terms of total bulk. It makes obtaining trade goods a meaningful choice.
Bob
I've been contemplating some changes to the production values that would help with both mixed-resource hexes and with outposts that pull from multiple resources. As part of that, I'd already been thinking it's okay for outposts that pull from multiple sources to add up to more than 100% since it's really mathematically impossible produce resources efficiently if they're restricted to a 100% total. Just have to find the right numbers to keep that from being too efficient. However, I'll need to make some decisions about the system as a whole before spending too much time making adjustments that I might have to rework if additional changes get made.
Azure_Zero
Thanks Bob for looking into this,

Crunching the number for Option 1 that I put up using +0 as example
upping to 37.5%, in a forest would be 12 units
upping to 50%, in a forest would be 17 units
Bob
Necroing this thread because the issue came up again in chat today. I think some of the production numbers may have changed since we last discussed Trading Outposts, but the general outlines remain the same.

It is true that Trading Outposts will pretty much always produce less overall bulk resources than some other outpost choice. That's because they draw from 4 different bulk resource ratings, and for each of those ratings there's another outpost choice that pulls from only that rating. So, just pick the highest of those ratings and place an outpost focused on it and you'll almost definitely get more overall bulk resources each day (unless the 4 ratings are nearly identical, but even then the Trading Outpost probably loses out because it has to round the results 4 times instead of 1-2).

However, Trading Outposts do seem to produce more Trade Goods than any other outpost choice in well over half the claimable hexes. Not necessarily by a very large amount, and often at a substantial cost in production of other bulk resources, but still noticeable. So, if the hexes you have available to you aren't high in Herds, Fish or Game, or if you're already producing more than enough Food from Crops and other sources, Trading Outposts could still be a good choice. Throw on the desire to make hexes self-supporting and Trading Outposts could sometimes be the best choice for a second outpost in hexes that are high in Ore/Wood but low in Fish/Herds/Game. It's possible those situations are more theoretical than actual, but that takes a lot of digging to figure out.

If it was the case that Trading Outposts never produced more Trade Goods than any other outpost choice, then I'd at least change it enough to make it do so. That wouldn't necessarily be the ideal setting for it, but it would at least get it to a clear minimum requirement. As it is, I'm still tempted to raise them a bit to help balance out the disadvantages of spreading their production across so many resource ratings (some other outposts might deserve smaller increases as well), but figuring out an appropriate number is a little more complicated and calls for a deeper dive on the rounding rules. It's a good candidate for my list of things to look into while staying away from code fixes though, just requires a little more thought than I can put in right at the moment.
Azure_Zero
I'll agree that Trading Outposts have flexibility in hexes they can be placed in,
but the math don't lie if the numbers for trading outposts are still 25%/25%/25%/25%.

The main problem is the bulk rating exclusivity pairs that are in the Trading outpost, Wood/Ore and Game/Herd
so no one can ever even get 75% of the hexes bulk resource rating and can only get 50% and even then the rating will be poor since one of them will be lower then the other.

So options 1 and 2 might need to be looked at to balance it.
Bob
Agreed, the math guarantees they'll always be pretty poor at generating Trading Goods, but even with the exclusivity pairs they're still usually better than the other options at generating Trading Goods in any given hex. Of course, those hexes are almost definitely better suited to generate other bulk resources instead, and it may be pretty rare to find yourself with a mix of hexes making those tradeoffs worthwhile. Still possible though, which is enough to make picking a "balanced" point require far more math. Some quick calculations convince me I can find the right numbers, and they wouldn't be a huge change or hard to implement, but running the math to convince myself the new numbers are in the right range is going to take some work.
Flari-Merchant
Too bad Trade Bulk resources can't someday be generated by interactive trading between players, settlements and governments. That would be much more interesting, IMO.
Azure_Zero
Bob
Agreed, the math guarantees they'll always be pretty poor at generating Trading Goods, but even with the exclusivity pairs they're still usually better than the other options at generating Trading Goods in any given hex. Of course, those hexes are almost definitely better suited to generate other bulk resources instead, and it may be pretty rare to find yourself with a mix of hexes making those tradeoffs worthwhile. Still possible though, which is enough to make picking a "balanced" point require far more math. Some quick calculations convince me I can find the right numbers, and they wouldn't be a huge change or hard to implement, but running the math to convince myself the new numbers are in the right range is going to take some work.

Sorry, Bob but I disagree with Trading outpost being better trade good producers as they currently are,
As the OP clearly states they at best a match to a hunting outpost in trade good production and the Hunting also generates the same amount of food on top of it.

I think if the percentages were raised to at least about 37.5% it would start to match a ranching outpost in trade good production in a plains hex, which is currently the best outpost and hex type combo for trade good production.
 
You must be logged into an enrolled account to post