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EE16/Roadmap

Maxen
Usually I’m content with letting Bringslite poke the bear. smile Can we get an update on the progress of EE16 and the Roadmap in general. Also, Lisa asked how to make Pathfinder more Pathfindery and had some ideas of her own. I’d like to hear those.
Bringslite
Yeah, what he said!!!!

Could we get some info about enchanting? How it will work like whole items, socketing of gems, etc…?
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Bob
While Cole's working on the Friends Lists, I've started looking more deeply into the enchanting system. I've still got a lot to wrap my head around before I can say too much about it, but we're leaning toward a system where Spellcrafters use recipes to take an existing item and convert it into an enchanted item (e.g. converting an Exquisite Circlet into a Superior Jeweler's Exquisite Circlet that grants a bonus to Jeweler). Hopefully I'll have some more detailed ideas to post on that soon, but it's taking a fair amount of research to nail down enough to open up the conversation.

We've also started discussing the roadmap beyond enchanting, but aren't ready to go into any detail on that yet. Partially, we need to get enchanting nailed down before we can devote too much time to what comes next.
Bringslite
Thanks, Bob. Sounds interesting. Maybe once you get more into it you could "premier" some of the items added as you go?
It might get us salivating and keep interest keen. smile
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Lisa Stevens
Maxen
Also, Lisa asked how to make Pathfinder more Pathfindery and had some ideas of her own. I’d like to hear those.

OK, time to chime in with my thoughts then. smile

Much of my thoughts on what is needed to make PFO more "Pathfindery" comes from talking to Pathfinder fans at shows and online when they are playing the game. I tended to focus on fans who aren't big fans of PFO. Many times, they aren't big MMO fans either, but they are curious and want to give PFO a try. But the fact that it isn't "Pathfindery" enough causes them to give it a pass.

Pathfinder fans come to the game with a lot of preconceptions about what they will find in PFO. Some of things we can't do a darn thing about with making a totally different game. Others we can do something about and I will give my ideas about those below.

Caveat, these are my ideas and haven't been vetted through Bob or Cole, so they could be downright impossible. So take these for what they are…Lisa's ideas to explore.

Pathfinder fans coming to the game expect the game they are coming to play to be Pathfinder. This usually means that they expect the rules to be the same as the tabletop version. Now, it is pretty much impossible to take a turn-based tabletop set of rules and use them to make a real-time online game. But, I think we can do more to make the connection between the tabletop rules and what we are using in PFO.

One of the first things that turns PFRPG fans away is the fact that we messed with one of the core precepts of the tabletop game—you kill things and get experience points to level your character up. PFO tries to play to that through the Achievements, but I don't think it is close enough to make the connection for new players. So one of my ideas is to change the way we present levels in the various character classes to make it closer to PFRPG. Right now, you gain levels as a class by buying various pre-set feats and those give you levels in the class you want (or in some cases, don't care about…for instance, Spider is Cleric 4 right now and I have never consciously tried to train her as a cleric).

So what if when you play PFO, you get experience points for killing things towards the class that you have your Feature Feat for. Spider has Daredevil slotted, so when she kills things, she would gain xp towards Rogue. When that xp hit certain levels, she would gain a level of Rogue. If she switched to Glory Domain, then she would start earning xp for Cleric. Heavy Blade Specialization? Fighter. We may even want you to have to slot an appropriate armor for that class and maybe even an approved weapon.

So what happens when you get to a level? It perhaps gives you things like hit points and base attack bonuses. But it also unlocks feats that you can buy with your build points. Build points you ask? Why yes, build points are points that you gain for every hour that you are subscribed. We just call them experience points now. Once you go up levels, then you are allowed to train various feats that get unlocked with class level gates. PFRPG players understand the idea of killing things, getting xp, leveling up and then having access to cool new things to buy once they have leveled. It isn't exactly 100% like tabletop, but it is much closer and easier for them to understand without changing much about how PFO is currently played.

Another thing we can do is to name things closer to what they are called in tabletop for similar things. For instance, why call something a Feature Feat, when we could call it something like an Archetype. Or even a Class Feat. Why not change History to Lore: History? The closer we get to using terminology that is used in the PFRGP, the easier it will be for new players to grok how to play PFO.

This is just the beginning of my thoughts, but I have to go home now. Stay tuned for more Lisa Thoughts(TM).
Lisa Stevens
I think I may have time for one more quick idea. One of the things that makes the game less "Pathfindery" is a distinct lack of the core classes and races. If you want to play a halfling bard and find that doesn't exist in the game, it turns a lot of folks away. Now, it will be very hard for us to provide all of the features for each class that you might expect such as the wild shape feature for druids or animal companions for rangers, but I think we can put them in the game in such a way that they feel like those classes without having to have every last feature they have in the PFRPG. The hard part is getting them to look like those classes without having a lot more art assets. Paladin and sorcerer would be easy since they are close to cleric/fighter and wizard, but with barbarian, you expect furs and lots of skin and muscles. Not quite sure how to deal with that. The rage feature would be fairly straight forward though.

Races need art and also some tech art love to get armor suits to fit, etc. I might be able to cobble new races together by hiring a freelancer to do it for us. But every time I need somebody outside of Paizo, it gets infinitely harder to pull off. And I can't afford to hire the art staff at this stage.

A third thing that I think makes things less "Pathfindery" is the lack of diversity in monsters. We have almost exclusively humanoid monsters. I have plans for how to get a larger menagerie of monsters into the game (and even hoped to have some in by now) but it has been harder than I expected. Having a much larger swath of Pathfinder monsters will definitely make the game feel more "Pathfindery."

OK, now home.

-Lisa
Bringslite
@Lisa- I like all of these things. They are both about increasing familiarity and diversity in a more PFRPG TT way. The leveling thing is very interesting because you added details to it that make it seem possible AND an interesting approach as well.

Great thoughts!
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Harad Navar
Thanks Lisa, good thoughts. The thing I find most different in PFO from Pathfinder is the difference in the use of ability scores. Improving ability scores in Pathfinder made us better at something rather that allowing us to do something. Gaining another point in an ability was exciting because bonuses were tied to ability score. This is most likely a difficult programmatic change, probably even too difficult.
Knowledge can explain the darkness, but it is not a light.
Maxen
Thank you Bob for the progress update. And Thank You, Lisa for sharing some of your Lisa Thoughts(TM)! smile
Giorgio
Lisa Stevens
This is just the beginning of my thoughts, but I have to go home now. Stay tuned for more Lisa Thoughts(TM).

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts with us, I look forward to more of them in the future. smile
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