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EE16/Roadmap

Edam
I agree with most of the people here … if you must do respecs … reset everything so it appears like a Day 1 (or whenever it started) character that has never at any point been played with a truckload of XP.

Among other things the character then acquires a genuine new history and is not just some instant power built battle-toon customised to be optimal with the current mechanics only to get instantly rebuilt the next time the rules change.
Schedim
Edam
I agree with most of the people here … if you must do respecs … reset everything so it appears like a Day 1 (or whenever it started) character that has never at any point been played with a truckload of XP.

Among other things the character then acquires a genuine new history and is not just some instant power built battle-toon customised to be optimal with the current mechanics only to get instantly rebuilt the next time the rules change.

Absolute! This I thought was a given, any other config of the respect would be (as noted several times) be open to plenty abuse. My idea was mostly to open up for playing a new build without throwing all money invested away.

Even a XP tax, small but still existing, could even further limit the possible numbers of abuse.
Schedim: Peddler and dealer in stuff easily transported, restless wandering the land of the River. Trying to find out how to reawaken the cult of Hanspur. To realise this ambition I created the company named Rats of Hanspur.
You can reach me on: pfo.schedim@gmail.com
Smitty
Redo on xp is a horrible idea - yes it sucks to spend xp that ends up being wasted - Yet players starting out are spending tiny amounts of xp – so yeah that 3000 xp was a waste sorry …
But really you think presenting those players with an option to spend money to redo that choice is good idea ? If they feel cheated they cant redo xp now - how is having to spend money to actually do it going them feel better ?? -

Wiping xp only helps old characters ( us) - we are already playing - why generate a system that is going to take a month + of dev time and testing to cater to us ??????????
Use that time on something that will be beneficial to new players.-
(this horse aint dead yet!!)
Instead of asking a player to pay more $ to redo xp they might have misspent - use that time to develop a way to let that player earn xp in game –
Add kill quest in addition to the passive xp gain-
That way when folks go out and kill 100/ 250/500/750 ___ - They earn some extra xp –
Which means when it comes time to spend xp on the next rank of ___ .
They know if they are actually are using ___ .
For people who want more people playing the game its crazy that you guys don’t understand the concept -encourage people to play the game, but letting them earn stuff when actually logged in and doing stuff in game..
Rant off back to work ..
Maxen
I will say this Smitty, then say no more (until this idea is resurrected again.) New players become old players. With only three available character slots on an account, at some point a player will say, ‘you know, I really wish I had done my character this way.’ Or, ‘I’d rather have a wizard instead of a fighter.’ Or, they just introduced the Sorcerer class and that focuses on Personality instead of Intelligence.’

Yes, I know. I earn 100xp per hour and I can start rebuilding a new character from sctratch. I strongly believe, however, that I paid for that previous XP. I spent time and money to earn it, and I expect a return on my investment. Yes, I got to play my character as I built it, but now I wish to reallocate that XP to make something different. This doesn’t have to be hard. It doesn’t even have to be immediate. But if this game grows and persists over time, you will find more players wanting this option. It shouldn’t matter that is an XP over time game. Whether XP is earned by slaying monsters or the over time, it is earned and there should be some well-designed, non-abusable option to allow for reallocation.
Azure_Zero
I have to agree with Smitty's points here.

And the active XP would not be to bad though, I'd recommend that it not enter the general XP pool and instead be put in a special XP pool
I'm think more along the lines of Fable 1 where you had General XP, and 3 XP sub-types.
The XP in the subtypes could only be spent on feature/skills that were of the same sub-type, while general XP could be used to buy anything when you ran out of XP of the subtype.

Each weapon group/attack could belong to a XP sub-type, so focus kills give Divine XP, Shortbow and Light Blades give Subterfuge XP, Heavy Blades and Longbows give Assault XP.

For Gathering, Refining, and End-Product Crafting they should each have their own special XP pool, but given that every refiner is also a End-Product Crafter it might be better that all (Gathering, Refining, and End-Product Crafting) is in the Production XP pool.
Stilachio Thrax
I've been thinking about this for awhile now, and I don't think XP resets should be added. The potential abuse and catering to power gaming seem to be too big a red flag. If it were implemented, it would have to wipe the slate clean- every achievement, gate, expendable learned, recipe learned gone for good.

As far as adding in active XP, I could support that if, and only if, it were hyper specific in how it could be used. Kills gained with a focus would grant active XP for foci only- meaning it can only be used when purchasing focus related feats. No shooting things with a shortbow to gain fast XP to let you get another feat for your focus.
Virtus et Honor

Steward of Ozem's Vigil, Lord Commander of the Argyraspides Iomedais
Smitty
@ maxen
Yes new players become old ones –
But why spend the few man hours our current developer has on making stuff for people that might make use of it in a few years ???

They Need to focus on things that will bring in new players - and hopefully keep them around long enough to become old players ..

As to if we should allow it and how it be done … that should be tabled until we have a development team/staff - and a healthy player population that might be able to make use of a feature like this ..
Maxen
@Smitty, I don’t disagree. There are far more important things to focus on. But this is a crowdforged game. There are no right or wrong, good or bad ideas. We make the suggestions. We may argue on the merits and potential issues. But ultimately, it’s not our decision.
Bringslite
One of the problems(IMO) that dog this game is a lack of easy to find documentation on how feats work together as far as whether they even function in concert or not. Does this stack with that or do they just over lap? Another is that many show little to no sign that they do anything without careful examination. Does the feat even work right at all?

Much of this will be polished in time but it is going to be a long time judging by the size of this Dev team and the mountain they have to climb in all areas of development before them that need work. If Paizo's main product here is the selling of xp the above problems become harder to sell on a consistent, ongoing basis. Because there are these existing problems (not to mention ongoing tweak and balance issues) it isn't unreasonable that xp should be a more flexible "purchased item". At least until this stuff is more settled and all working right.

Later it should be a regular option just to keep players around so that they can try different things without having to invest another year+ in waiting on xp. That could be a major factor in longevity of playability and player retention. Do it right and it could keep players, "playing" the game.

Put plainly, if I spend a cpl years building a great powerful fighter then play her for a year and I get bored, I might stay longer if I can possibly try swapping out and playing a wizard with her. I am less likely to do that if it will take another year+ to create that wizard build. I am more likely to try a different game.

I agree that there are more important things to do first. Perhaps some of the other things will lessen the urge/wish that xp hadn't been spent on feats that have problems or have been changed so much that they are "regretted purchases" at the player's POV.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Azure_Zero
Stilachio Thrax
I've been thinking about this for awhile now, and I don't think XP resets should be added. The potential abuse and catering to power gaming seem to be too big a red flag. If it were implemented, it would have to wipe the slate clean- every achievement, gate, expendable learned, recipe learned gone for good.

As far as adding in active XP, I could support that if, and only if, it were hyper specific in how it could be used. Kills gained with a focus would grant active XP for foci only- meaning it can only be used when purchasing focus related feats. No shooting things with a shortbow to gain fast XP to let you get another feat for your focus.

Glad your seeing the tip of the iceberg of the problem XP resets could bring.

Looks like we are on a similar page on making achievements give special XP and it goes in a sub-type of XP.
I agree really specific would be best, but feel that would add too much work and data to manage and not give some flexibility for players who play the class as the class on the whole.
 
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