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EE16/Roadmap

Maxen
You are a Troll
Kingmaker online?

At its very core, that’s exactly what it is.
Bringslite
Maxen
You are a Troll
Kingmaker online?

At its very core, that’s exactly what it is.
Agreed. That is where I would go with it if it wasn't already an upcoming or published CRPG.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Paddy Fitzpatrick
How bout Battle for the River Kingdoms?

Gives a bit more info on exactly what the goal is and at least names the location of the game within Golarion.

On a different note, I will be honest I would think it would be better to switch to a system where you level up skills based on how much you use them. Have separate xp paths for crafting, gathering, combat, etc.

Perhaps take the achievement portion, make that into straight up xp for each of the weapon, crafting, gathering, PvE, and PvP achievements and remove the xp over time part entirely. It is not necessary to remake the whole thing just adjust the way you level up the achievements in the current system. You have to do them before you can spend the xp anyway and it is active xp by a different name. Just adjust it and make it take longer. Also the different kinds of points each achievement gives can be adapted further as a requirement for a given feat. The rest can be left as is.

That has MANY other benefits too. The biggest one being that someone can do some crafting, gathering, AND combat on the same character! They can choose to focus on any given role but still have some ability to provide some of the basics for their own toons. You don't HAVE to make multiple toons just to accomplish one role. Crafters can dabble in some of the refining they need from other disciplines to provide some of the basics they need for their specialties. It would be great to get into that kind of crafting system for me since it wouldn't take me almost a year and a half with multiple dedicated crafting and gathering toons just to be a weapon smith.

With the enchanting system and more people able to queue up more stuff, you can have dedicated T3 guys cooking up stuff that will take weeks or months while others can just put in some ammo making in their own queues. With more goods being able to be made by players, settlements, and alliances there could be more left over to put on the markets to help grow the economy.

Crafters and gatherers would have some more leeway to adequately defend themselves even if it isn't exactly to the level of a dedicated combat character. It would make things like banditry much more challenging with the chance that a few decently armed gatherers protecting each other could hold em off or get them to back away. Would take some of the fear and sting out of the possibility of running into hostile strangers too.

The possibilities for improving the gameplay cannot be understated. All of these things would benefit new players as well. It would definitely help with player retention knowing that they can be what they really want to be without having to pay multiple subs for multiple accounts just to get themselves started.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Another thing to consider with this proposal:

It is true that this game was designed with having settlements run with 100+ instead of just a few of us as it is now. However instead of the current idea of 100 players all doing specific parts of different roles, this way would allow for players to contribute a lot more and again WITHOUT having to use multiple toons to do so.

Instead of having many dedicated refiners, then some dedicated crafters for each crafting path, then having dedicated gatherers to equip an army that will be much smaller than the number of people required to support them, you can have full fledged crafters and refiners who have some dabbling in other areas that they need so that they aren't constantly waiting on each other. This in turn allows more members of the settlement to contribute more to the settlement and do it much more efficiently. This not only will help with infrastructure but also allow more support for an army of dedicated combat troops. Furthermore even the gatherers and builders can have more combat ability so they can at least hold their own as a militia and help to actually defend and hold on to what they build.

That group of 100 would accomplish a lot more and also would then be more empowered to go out and do more in the ovsmerall game world. Give your players more ability to accomplish more with one toon and they will be able to generate more content.

It will also imo have a much bigger appeal to new players who want to do more without shelling out more cash monthly to do so. This in turn gives a much better chance to get to that goal of having 100+ people per settlement in the first place.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Finally, the biggest plus of it all would be not requiring a subscription model. It has been a turnoff for some new players especially for a game in this stage. With a sea of early access games out there competing for attention this game needs the ability to adopt a different business model. Just doing a WoW sub for one toon right now is not something new people may be keen on. If they find that to be certain roles they need multiple characters which require multiple subs they may easily look elsewhere. How many people do we know would want to have to pay $30, $45, or more per month just to do everything they need to accomplish their one role? WoW doesn't even require that.

No longer needing a sub would also go a long way for player retention. Definitely something to consider. This game can easily have much to offer that you may not find anywhere else. Problem is some of these turn offs can cause the game to lose players before they ever get a chance to see any of it.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Azure_Zero
I think your right Paddy the game needs a new payment model,
I think Guild wars did it right, I bought the game and then played with no extra payments other then for cosmetics, character slots and expansions.

Since I can't remember exactly how they got paid, I can't explain it.
Bringslite
To be fair, the payment model has evolved over time. You can buy game time with Azoth, which is tradable for in-game coin. The rate that materials sell for these days, it is quite possible to play for free with a moderate amount of grinding.

That may not be enough of what Paddy is thinking about but it is true.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Bringslite
To be fair, the payment model has evolved over time. You can buy game time with Azoth, which is tradable for in-game coin. The rate that materials sell for these days, it is quite possible to play for free with a moderate amount of grinding.

That may not be enough of what Paddy is thinking about but it is true.

That is correct, while Azoth is an alternative way to pay for more months, it merely stands as an alternate way to continue the monthly sub not to replace it. There also needs to be a robust global economy like Eve has in order for buying game time with in game money to work. There will never be that in this game if you can't attract and retain enough players. Also the other reason it works in Eve is because you don't have an active so system on top of the passive one AND your skill sets level up on their own once you set everything up. Unlike here, you can start off doing useful and meaningful things from day 1 and become increasingly better as your skills finish leveling. You can (at least in theory) immediately start working towards saving up money to buy sub time items.

The thing that makes this game require a sub is the passive xp. My proposal is to remove the passive xp mechanic entirely and tweak the achievement and stat gate mechanics to be the primary way characters level up.

Removing the passive xp mechanic removes the one thing that is preventing PFO from switching to a different payment model like the one Guild Wars has as Azure mentioned. To gain more money add lots more items to the cash shop. More player housing/building types. More cosmetic options for your character and most of all buildings. Anything from merely changing the color of the walls of a building to adding heraldry or more pathfinder related art and doodads. They dont have to be released all at once. Just do what you can and even a few trickling in over a long period of time is better than nothing. Azoth is still useful in other areas of the game so that can still be a cash shop item too.

Remove the passive xp system so the game can be priced in a completely different way. I get the original design was supposed to resemble Eve somewhat but it just isn't working. Given that most competing niche games (especially ones that like PFO have not hit full release) do not do subs, PFO imo cannot stay wedded to a failed idea that puts them at a huge disadvantage in the game market.

Not only is a new player not able to really do much in the broad scheme of things till they hit T2, they wont be able to even get started on that without paying for one months worth of xp up front. We have already seen new players from the humble bundle sale and from when free trial accounts were still a thing hesitant about paying a sub for what is essentially an early access game. If that was the case from players we saw, how many potential players may we have lost since free trial accounts were removed? How many players may have been curious but took one look at the fact that there is a sub just to get started and moved on without a second thought? How many potential players may at least be convinced to give this game a try if there was a different pay model entirely?
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Bringslite
Well I do believe that there is still the possibility of some kind of hybrid system between what we have now and what could be done with xp for adventuring/questing. Something along the lines of what Lisa posted above.

That could tie in well with such things like gather/refine/crafting being a separate xp system. Mybe part of what is earned over time. And the ability to "Grind extra xp" being one of the "premium perks" for full subscription. I agree with you that some kind of new model is the way to go though. Games need populations. With a carefully built cash shop (just never sell Direct Power Ups) the low cost or F2P players could possibly make it worthwhile.

But basically, YOU NEED TO HAVE A POPULATION because nothing will ever work satisfactorily without one. Even if you don't, at first, make tons of revenue from them.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Harad Navar
Bringslite
But basically, YOU NEED TO HAVE A POPULATION because nothing will ever work satisfactorily without one. Even if you don't, at first, make tons of revenue from them.
I agree.
Knowledge can explain the darkness, but it is not a light.
 
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