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EE16/Roadmap

New Guy
First of all please explain why a passive exp system augmented by an earned exp system is any worse than a straight earned only exp system. In one way you have to do the work of removing the old system and designing a totally new system. In the 2nd all you have to do is add a small system to allow the ability to earn more.

A system which allows for a bonus gained should Paizo decide to go with a Fremium system. For Fremium you need to offer incentives to pay the sub price.

Oh and somewhere back there you mentioned that newer mmo's coming out are not using subscription systems. Can you name one of those?
New Guy
Having read your post more carefully- This game could be realty improved by adding some loot to the pvp. Getting stuff in the cash shop. Even enchanting will add something.

I am just suggesting that they try cleaning up some easy fixes and not bind themselves down with multimonth long projects. They haven't helped yet. I haven't played in a year plus but I know a few that do. They report the population is shrinking. Need some fixes fast as well as long term.
Paddy Fitzpatrick
New Guy
First of all please explain why a passive exp system augmented by an earned exp system is any worse than a straight earned only exp system. In one way you have to do the work of removing the old system and designing a totally new system. In the 2nd all you have to do is add a small system to allow the ability to earn more.

A system which allows for a bonus gained should Paizo decide to go with a Fremium system. For Fremium you need to offer incentives to pay the sub price.

Oh and somewhere back there you mentioned that newer mmo's coming out are not using subscription systems. Can you name one of those?

To name a few I have played recently, Life is Feudal, Gloria Victis, and Dark and Light. When I was speaking about my idea for tweaking the active xp portion and removing the passive XP I was taking some inspiration from Gloria Victis specifically. The spirit of it (cause it should be adspted to the way PFO achievements work) is having separate XP for various things. You get XP for each individual crafting skill, xp for overall character level, and so on. PvP, world event PvE quests, and contributing mats to upgrade castles give xp along with the usual grinding. It is Actually faster to do it that way than full fledged grinding.

Something similar could be done with thr achievement system and in fact PFO acheivement mechanic already lends itself to this. Just have to add to it and make it balanced of course. Doing it this way accomplishes many of the other things I mentioned. A builder or gatherer can have some REAL fighting capability and also fight alongside the dedicated fighters, the dedicated fighters can dabble more in crafting or gathering to be self sufficient and contribute more to their settlements, and so on. It can have a domino effect.

So yes beefing up the achievement xp components and removing the passive ones will do this game a lot of good. You could still keep the subbing model where it is x amount of dollars per toon after the first one reaches T2 or a new character slot is made. It still offers a lot more flexibility though and I think makes the game a better game overall.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of Aragon Alliance and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Bringslite
@ Lisa

Well we do know that all changes can't be made all at once so the best plan would be to make the very BEST changes that can be made, quickly (in the right direction) to increase the paying player base. Of course, following that up with further effort towards other critical works that are part of a longer plan.

Amongst the posts here are many good ideas. Who is to say which are the very "most likely to succeed" in getting PFO to where you want it to be? Some may be great and change everything while some may be a waste of precious time and do little to help with the "perceived need" for immediate revenue bolstering. On top of this, none of us players really know how long Paizo will be able to maintain this game unless the paying player base really does grow to a "best case" population level.

Considering these issues and lacking the cash for major hiring and sustainable "work in progress" conditions, my brain tells me the best advice I could give you (completely novice advice) is to do three things after player "friends lists" and the "enchanting feature" completion. Those are probably too far along to be worth interrupting.

1. Expand your(Editsmile cash Azoth shop with everything you already have available already in game. All within your acceptable parameters avoiding pay-to-win.

2. Drop your sub model to $4.99/month, leaving it at one character per sub for now. Do not worry about $X/per character, etc… for now. Leave DTs as they are for now.

3. Advertise via all possible outlets that are free or low cost about the price changes.

These are easier to do, sooner rather than ongoing. Seems like minimal work, comparatively to time investment, and are less risky(sans price drop. You might add in a free trial month and to hell with Influence and free character limits. They will not affect much until the Max Influence is re evaluated.

After that, choices can be made on how/what to address about xp models, PVP and looting, and all the other issues that need attention. You can't do it all at once, we realize that.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Lisa Stevens
Bringslite
@ Lisa

1. Expand your(Editsmile cash Azoth shop with everything you already have available already in game. All within your acceptable parameters avoiding pay-to-win.

What do you mean by expanding the cash shop with everything you already have available in game? Are we selling, for cash, +3 Studded Shadowskin armor, coal by the 100's, and Greater Holy Light spells? Not really sure what you mean by already have available in the game? If it is just the stuff already in the cash shop, then that isn't enough to cut our revenues by 2/3rds.

-Lisa
Edam
You know, assuming people here at NOT silly enough to want a system where you can login 24/7 run around with your higher level mates and be max level in everything within a few months — most of what is being talked about can be achieved by renaming the current passive "XP" training points and calling the existing achievements things like "Heavy Weapon XP".
Bringslite
@ Lisa

Sorry for not being more clear. I guess I mean some things like maybe recipes, expendables, Aeon stones… things that can't be easily found, specifically. Maybe things that players can't always access like Large Mules and gusher kits.

Stuff that is already existing and in addition things that you can easily invent like Stat variants of recipes if that seems a good market.

Raw materials sound fine to me also. The point is that you already have some stuff that players might pay for, because convenience. If they still have to craft with it or pay xp to learn it or be at risk to use it then it seems less like P2W.

Do this first to see how this small pop reacts and then judge if lower sub price is feasible.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Edam
I am not sure bypassing the rarity of things like stones and gateway recipes is a good thing. It may encourage even more of the log in once a week/month style of play making up for less effort in game by throwing cash at the game.

Loot boxes where you cannot predict what you get may help a bit but there are recently arising legal issues with loot boxes in some jurisdictions.

Note I am not opposed to the idea per se, just wondering if it is necessarily a good thing.
Bringslite
Edam
I am not sure bypassing the rarity of things like stones and gateway recipes is a good thing. It may encourage even more of the log in once a week/month style of play making up for less effort in game by throwing cash at the game.

Loot boxes where you cannot predict what you get may help a bit but there are recently arising legal issues with loot boxes in some jurisdictions.

Note I am not opposed to the idea per se, just wondering if it is necessarily a good thing.
Nor am I positively sure that it would be "the perfect thing" to do. I do believe that it would increase revenue. I believe that part of going to a F2p or a Freemium model (or a seriously reduced general sub price) is strategized to make a world feel alive and that benefits play time for almost everyone involved (note I say almost) To pull this off you need to augment revenue with things like game stores. Please also note that I am leery about those kinds of open models as well because of larger player bases being much less "great Communities" on average.

The bottom line is though revenue does not, unfortunately, fall like rain. If you want a "better" more successful game you need staff to make it so. You need players. You need revenue for that to happen.

If PFO can continue indefinitely with this small pop while Bob and Cole work like maniacs to get all done that is needed and that is satisfying, then this is all a moot point. If it can't wait that long, then tough changes and compromise need be made.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Stilachio Thrax
Lisa Stevens
Bringslite
@ Lisa

1. Expand your(Editsmile cash Azoth shop with everything you already have available already in game. All within your acceptable parameters avoiding pay-to-win.

What do you mean by expanding the cash shop with everything you already have available in game? Are we selling, for cash, +3 Studded Shadowskin armor, coal by the 100's, and Greater Holy Light spells? Not really sure what you mean by already have available in the game? If it is just the stuff already in the cash shop, then that isn't enough to cut our revenues by 2/3rds.

-Lisa

Cosmetics come to mind. I'm not a fan of most of the armor graphics, and would pay a nominal amount for an armor that was basic plates and chain, covered by a surcoat with a small choice of devices, and a great helm. Nothing fancy or outlandish.
Virtus et Honor

Steward of Ozem's Vigil, Lord Commander of the Argyraspides Iomedais
 
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