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Experience Point Options

NightmareSr
Thanks for the explanation Bob. I have been wanting to subscribe/Train all 3 on an account at the same time since I started playing. smile
- Wandering gatherer (NightmareSr#2669 on discord)
Drizzle
Bob
That's a risk, but our goal is always to balance any premium purchases such that skill, strategy, persistence, and other unpaid traits are essential to success. At the very least, XP doesn't do all that much good without earning the right achievements, and those generally take a fair amount of time in-game to earn.

Not so for refiners and crafters. In fact all you need to level a refiner to 20 is access to a handful of +3 uncommon gateway recipes and a few mats.
Bob
Drizzle
Not so for refiners and crafters. In fact all you need to level a refiner to 20 is access to a handful of +3 uncommon gateway recipes and a few mats.

True, that is one of the easier paths that doesn't involve as much time-consuming gameplay. Still, you do need to use up some mats along the way, and recipes, all of which someone had to obtain, so that counts as part of the overall effort to advance. We could also look into some additional prereqs if the current ones feel too light.
Edam
Bob
Drizzle
Not so for refiners and crafters. In fact all you need to level a refiner to 20 is access to a handful of +3 uncommon gateway recipes and a few mats.

True, that is one of the easier paths that doesn't involve as much time-consuming gameplay. Still, you do need to use up some mats along the way, and recipes, all of which someone had to obtain, so that counts as part of the overall effort to advance. We could also look into some additional prereqs if the current ones feel too light.

Getting a crafter up can still be difficult even with XP. The level 20 armor gate for example is a nightmare.

Gathering and combat skills need a lot of time invested and hence are fine.

Getting a refiner to 20 on the other hand is stupidly easy. You may want to look at making the gateways things like "30 batches of T2 uncommon items" rather than just the one.
Bringslite
Bob
Smitty
Since this is XP based thread –

Why not just provide ways to earn xp while playing the game?

Have asked before about kill quest- This seems like something players would expect from this type of game. Go out kill monsters get xp. It flows with what would normally encounter in table top.

Provides new players something to do if they spent the 1k they started with- the NPCs already do coin quest - should be able to tweak those easy enough to make them able to be requested by characters with certain ability scores.

We could do something along those lines, and being open to XP purchases does somewhat open the door to this possibility as well. There are some tricky balance issues involved, but then there always are.

In terms of quest prerequisites, we currently gate them on either completing another specific quest (you can't do the role tutorial quests until you do the movement tutorial quest), getting a specific achievement (you can't do the Rolling Bones quest until you've gotten Skeleton Slayer 1), or on learning a specific feat (you can't do the escalation tutorial quest until you learn Base Attack Bonus 1). We could certainly add more kinds of prerequisites, but those are pretty good methods for now.
This is a good idea and should be considered closely. Even if it is a bit repetitive for awhile until you can create more kill quests and spread them around to far flung parts of the map. It will make it worthwhile (something else to do) to be in-game and actively playing.

That is important rather than logging to wait for xp to pile up.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Bringslite
BTW, I am not suggesting that you would need to create enough xp reward quests to lvl a character to 20 by questing. Just maybe have them reset at server up so that these specific ones could be repeatable at some rate less than xp over time but significant that progress could be made noticeably faster by doing them.

A nod to those who object to things which smell even vaguely of P2W.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Stormygeddon
Bringslite
BTW, I am not suggesting that you would need to create enough xp reward quests to lvl a character to 20 by questing. Just maybe have them reset at server up so that these specific ones could be repeatable at some rate less than xp over time but significant that progress could be made noticeably faster by doing them.

A nod to those who object to things which smell even vaguely of P2W.

The good thing about these suggestions for those of us that are not playing but have multiple characters subbed so as not to get behind on the XP curve is we will be able to now happily unsub safe in the knowledge we can catch up if we return to the game. It is win/win as we will no longer have to keep subbing a game we may potentially never come back too, but should we ever return Piazo will get a windfall of sorts as we buy our catchup XP.
Bringslite
Stormygeddon
Bringslite
BTW, I am not suggesting that you would need to create enough xp reward quests to lvl a character to 20 by questing. Just maybe have them reset at server up so that these specific ones could be repeatable at some rate less than xp over time but significant that progress could be made noticeably faster by doing them.

A nod to those who object to things which smell even vaguely of P2W.

The good thing about these suggestions for those of us that are not playing but have multiple characters subbed so as not to get behind on the XP curve is we will be able to now happily unsub safe in the knowledge we can catch up if we return to the game. It is win/win as we will no longer have to keep subbing a game we may potentially never come back too, but should we ever return Piazo will get a windfall of sorts as we buy our catchup XP.
I believe the real point is that the number of those subbed ATM, whether actively playing or bidding their time, is such a small drink of water that the game will eventually die of thirst as things are. At least it will never be able to have the resources to improve at a rate that is acceptable to keep us all around for years let alone growing without providing what players want.

Depending on what exactly "it will never be as efficient to buy xp as it will be to earn it over time" means your observation could be relevant or short sighted or not really true. Add being able to possibly earn xp by playing (not mentioned as more than a suggestion) and how do you "catch up" easily with $$$ but not by playing? So I hope that your point isn't totally accurate! smile

Anyway, even if it is, the idea doesn't worry or bother me in any way considering that the xp needed to reach the very tip of "awesomely complete competitive character" takes so much xp AND only a limited number of skills can be combined at any one time.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
plopmania
So, the way I understood the "by exp with Azoth", there is no real limit to how much exp can be bought? Is it less efficient that just subscribing but one can be subscribed and buy exp. Can I just slap $10k on the table and sky-rocket my character's exp?

That does read like a "pay-to-win" proposition. Even if we throw in all the spiel about lateral progression, mild power-curve, and gate and gear requirements. After all, exp is power in this game. And people who are touchy about p2w, aren't all that lenient (nor rational) when it comes to things like these.

Also, I feel like this is missing the issue that most new player's have brought up on the forums. If I recall correctly, they are more concerned about the feeling of "not being able to progress by playing" rather than being behind the curve.

So, regardless of what happens to the exp buying, could We add something that would better fill that need in addition to the current gate system?

Couple of (potentially poop) ideas:
  • When the character is behind the potential maximum exp (any non-zero day character starting out, allow them to earn minimal exp by killing monsters, collecting stuff, and crafting items. Potential problem is of course run-away exp grinding and potentially having to explain what the f is going on.
  • Introduce levelable feats and skills. Character can unlock a feat with exp, but reaching the full potential of the feat requires the player to do activities which grand exp-like resource of the correct type. A combat feat would require combat exp, crafting feat would require crafting exp, etc. I.e. character buys something like "Power Attack"; instead of buying "Improved Power Attack" the player would level up the "Power Attack" into "Improved Power Attack". Skills could have either certain portion of the max value reserved as "gained by training", or some some modifier which is increased by doing related actions. Whatever.

I realize that both of these a pretty big divergence from the current plans and balance, but these are just examples of how to maybe deliver more of the feeling of "progress by playing"
Edam
plopmania
So, the way I understood the "by exp with Azoth", there is no real limit to how much exp can be bought? Is it less efficient that just subscribing but one can be subscribed and buy exp. Can I just slap $10k on the table and sky-rocket my character's exp?

In EVE Online (which uses the XP per day system used in PFO) they introduced a system where you can farm XP on one character and then sell or transfer it to a different character. Thus XP does not magically appear out of thin air like proposed here, it must come from other characters. Regardless, within weeks of being introduced, one of the richer players in game was able to transfer and buy enough XP to train a character in every skill in the game (over 20 real time years worth of training if done the hard way) in just a few weeks.
 
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