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effects of tier on attacks

Gross
- if this is the wrong forum please move

I am wondering about the role of tier in effects… (as part of deciding what enchantments to start hunting mats for)…

Wondering as it looks much easier to gather the mats to put a T2 enchantment on a T3 weapon than the T3 version but want to know if its only the reduction of the effect (eg 30 vs 20 bonus) or is there any other loss from bringing a T2 element into the equation.
Mercenary monster hunter from Forgeholm
War priest of Angradd… patiently waiting on Goblinworks to deliver him (and greataxes, Dwarves need 2 handed axes).
Bob
The enchantments don't look at the item tier when calculating their effects, so there wouldn't be a direct loss from putting a T2 enchantment on a T3 item. The usual downside is just opportunity cost, since T3 enchantments are generally better than T2 enchantments, so you're not getting as much of a bonus as you could. For example, Superior Weaver (bonus +25 to +50) is clearly better than Greater Weaver (bonus +11 to +26), and Contingency Protection (resist acid and sonic) is clearly better than Resist Acid (identical resistance bonus numbers, but only to acid).

However, it's not as clear that T3 weapon enchantments are always better than T2 weapon enchantments, since they can rarely be compared directly. The best weapon enchantment for you is the one you can take the most advantage of, regardless of tier, but you still want to put it on the highest tier weapon you can use. We've made some attempt to match the tier of each weapon enchantment to the likelihood that characters wielding that tier of weapon will find it most useful, but that's based on very rough generalizations. If you've got attack feats that match the Fire keyword, then you probably want a Flaming weapon, regardless of tier.
Gross
Ta for that, excellent. Looking through the wiki page of enchantments the how often will it apply vs resource cost and usefulness of the effect the question seemed tied up with which weapon I am using and what effects my attacks are generating allowing the enchantment to activate, so wanted to be sure I could just use the effects calculation in the wiki to guide my thinking.

Mercenary monster hunter from Forgeholm
War priest of Angradd… patiently waiting on Goblinworks to deliver him (and greataxes, Dwarves need 2 handed axes).
Edam
Bob
and Temperature Protection (resist acid and sonic) is clearly better than Resist Acid (identical resistance bonus numbers, but only to acid).
Temp protection is actually fire and cold but I get the point.

Slightly off-topic - but have you considered allowing the various armor protections to also target shields (with no stacking obviously)? It would go someway towards making shields more useful.
Bob
Edam
Temp protection is actually fire and cold but I get the point.

Dangit, glanced over at the wrong row in the spreadsheet, meant Contingency Protection from one row down. Fixed that in my original answer, now nobody will ever know my shame.

Edam
Slightly off-topic - but have you considered allowing the various armor protections to also target shields (with no stacking obviously)? It would go someway towards making shields more useful.

That's an interesting question. I think letting shields have armor enchantments would make it possible to have a little bit of every resistance, where now you have to accept at least one resistance that's not getting boosted. However, it seems like shield users are generally using heavier armors, and thus getting less energy resistance out of the deal, so maybe that's all right. I'll file a feature request to at least consider it. Assuming it seems reasonably balanced, it's a pretty easy change.
Edam
Bob
That's an interesting question. I think letting shields have armor enchantments would make it possible to have a little bit of every resistance, where now you have to accept at least one resistance that's not getting boosted.

Not quite. There are 10 resistances. No enchantment does physical so effectively only 9 matter here.

Only Mage Resistance covers three energy types (Fire/Cold/Electric) so you would likely put that on your armor. This would leave a choice of Muted, Contingency or Dark Shielding for the shield, each of which cover two energy types that are not part of Mage Resistance. Hence a max of 5 energy types with both armor and shield enchanted. It is also worth noting that Force, Psychic and Holy enchantments are only available as single resistances. If you want to cover one of those you only get to cover 4 energy types.

Enchanting two shields and flipping between weapon slots will not really help much as unfortunately every possible combo of Muted, Contingency or Dark Shielding doubles up on something. There are adventurers cottages to fill some of the gap of course but they are a temporary buff and require you to be close to home. Also the more popular cottage give physical which is not relevant to enchanting.

Sooo TL&DR - you could cover at most 5 of the 10, or alternatively 4 of the 10 if you want to cover one of Force, Psychic or Holy.


EDIT: I just realised you can already enchant armor, neck and two rings so my analysis is flawed. The existing slots would give you 3+2+1+1 or seven of nine (Voyager anyone? if you wanted to devote all those slots to resistances. Adding a shield would allow 1 more (due to doubling up) so eight of nine.

harneloot
Shields are not armor in PFO so they should not be able to be enchanted with Armor Only enchantments. If you want to do so, then you need to reevaluate the entire shield attack tree. I have PvP'd against a high level shield user and I can tell you first hand they do not need any more advantage smile
Xyzzy - gatherer, yeoman archer, swamp monster.
Edam
harneloot
Shields are not armor in PFO so they should not be able to be enchanted with Armor Only enchantments. If you want to do so, then you need to reevaluate the entire shield attack tree. I have PvP'd against a high level shield user and I can tell you first hand they do not need any more advantage smile

One of the issues new players have is they feel shields should have a passive defensive bonus. Allowing enchanted save or resistances bonuses on a shield would help there. They may never enchant the shield but at least it has the potential to fill something of a traditional role if enchanted.

Currently the only serious defensive thing you get with a shield (aside from minor buffs you can get elsewhere) is the two knock-back attack feats which do not work correctly (or at all?) in PvE. Shields in PvE are in fact rather lacklustre and never an optimal choice.

Admittedly PVP may be different. Someone spamming knock-back with a shield in PvP sounds like it would be pretty annoying for a melee character for example. However I am not really in a position to comment on PvP in this game as I have minimal experience of (or interest in) it and that experience was 4 years ago.
Maxen
Edam
One of the issues new players have is they feel shields should have a passive defensive bonus. Allowing enchanted save or resistances bonuses on a shield would help there. They may never enchant the shield but at least it has the potential to fill something of a traditional role if enchanted.

I don’t know why they deviated from the more traditional defensive role in tabletop, but they did. Either make shields a fully defensive arm decoration, or educate new players that it’s considered a weapon and not used for defense. Not both.
plopmania
Maxen
Edam
One of the issues new players have is they feel shields should have a passive defensive bonus. Allowing enchanted save or resistances bonuses on a shield would help there. They may never enchant the shield but at least it has the potential to fill something of a traditional role if enchanted.

I don’t know why they deviated from the more traditional defensive role in tabletop, but they did. Either make shields a fully defensive arm decoration, or educate new players that it’s considered a weapon and not used for defense. Not both.

But it is not a deviation. While not super popular, shield bash and shield spikes are a valid option in tabletop. Shield can be utilized in TT in both roles just fine. Sure, PFO places more emphasis on the shield as a weapon approach but that's just as well.
 
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