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effects of tier on attacks

Bringslite
Yeah, while I want to give Goblinworks credit for TRYING to make shields more interesting and adding in the "shield was also a weapon" feeling, I don't feel it was done well. Should have applied all shield attacks as utilities and/or expendable maneuvers and given a defensive bonus.

I have a longing for "X and board" fighting features. They just "feel" like they should be an available part of the combat builds options.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Maxen
plopmania
Maxen
Edam
One of the issues new players have is they feel shields should have a passive defensive bonus. Allowing enchanted save or resistances bonuses on a shield would help there. They may never enchant the shield but at least it has the potential to fill something of a traditional role if enchanted.

I don’t know why they deviated from the more traditional defensive role in tabletop, but they did. Either make shields a fully defensive arm decoration, or educate new players that it’s considered a weapon and not used for defense. Not both.

But it is not a deviation. While not super popular, shield bash and shield spikes are a valid option in tabletop. Shield can be utilized in TT in both roles just fine. Sure, PFO places more emphasis on the shield as a weapon approach but that's just as well.

You are correct, of course. I’ve played TT for years starting with the D&D Basic Rules Set I. But I have almost never seen someone build a character that utilizes their shield as an offensive weapon. It’s usually an after though like:

GM: Your opponent disarms you.
Player: Okay, I bash him in the face with my shield.
GM: Make your attack at -4.

Like Bringslite said, interesting concept, but poorly implemented. Most players would rather see sword and board.
Bob
Edam
I just realised you can already enchant armor, neck and two rings so my analysis is flawed. The existing slots would give you 3+2+1+1 or seven of nine (Voyager anyone? if you wanted to devote all those slots to resistances. Adding a shield would allow 1 more (due to doubling up) so eight of nine.

The sneaky exception that would make it possible to cover all nine relevant resistances with shields added in is that Resist Sonic and Resist Psychic can be put on helms as well. On the other hand, that also opens the door to putting these enchantments on some alternate equipment, so there's a good chance we'd eventually have provided a path to covering them all anyway. At least putting all the effects in the same channel keeps them from doubling up.
Bob
harneloot
Shields are not armor in PFO so they should not be able to be enchanted with Armor Only enchantments. If you want to do so, then you need to reevaluate the entire shield attack tree. I have PvP'd against a high level shield user and I can tell you first hand they do not need any more advantage smile

I tend to call them armor enchantments, but technically their enchant groups include Armor, Neck, Ring, and (in 2 cases) Helm.

In terms of balance, the shield attacks do look reasonably powerful, and though technically attacks, they offer some interesting defensive results compare to other weapon choices. Aside from the PvE bugs for some of those effects, they probably don't need much in terms of major advantages, but could certainly use more differentiation for flavor.

The balance could also get a little interesting when enchanting is taken into account. Since Block doesn't actually do any damage, you might not get as much mileage out of putting several weapon enchantments on a shield as you would putting them on other weapons, so it might have a disadvantage there. I'd have to compare the attack/enchantment combinations for shields with those from a couple other weapons to see whether giving them some other enchantment possibilities makes things more or less balanced overall.
Edam
Bob
harneloot
Shields are not armor in PFO so they should not be able to be enchanted with Armor Only enchantments. If you want to do so, then you need to reevaluate the entire shield attack tree. I have PvP'd against a high level shield user and I can tell you first hand they do not need any more advantage smile

I tend to call them armor enchantments, but technically their enchant groups include Armor, Neck, Ring, and (in 2 cases) Helm.

In terms of balance, the shield attacks do look reasonably powerful, and though technically attacks, they offer some interesting defensive results compare to other weapon choices. Aside from the PvE bugs for some of those effects, they probably don't need much in terms of major advantages, but could certainly use more differentiation for flavor.

The balance could also get a little interesting when enchanting is taken into account. Since Block doesn't actually do any damage, you might not get as much mileage out of putting several weapon enchantments on a shield as you would putting them on other weapons, so it might have a disadvantage there. I'd have to compare the attack/enchantment combinations for shields with those from a couple other weapons to see whether giving them some other enchantment possibilities makes things more or less balanced overall.

You need to take into account when balancing that shields are always a secondary hand weapon and for most single handed melee weapons the secondaries are your GOOD attacks so you are losing some of your best weapon attacks to slot a shield. This is particularly true of sanctified weapons. The original team seemed to think your primaries would be your main attacks and used more often but generally that is not the case unless you a rogue trying to get stacks of DoTs built up.

As far as PvP balance goes I am not in a position to comment BUT if it is true, as Xyzzy says, that shields can be OP in PvP that definitely needs looking into. I bow to Xyzzy's expertise in these areas he knows what he is talking about in PvP matters. However I personally see that as a quite separate balance issue from the question of whether shields can take a different enchantment mix.

As far as the edge case that someone could enchant 6 items (armor, neck, helm, ring, ring, shield) and cover all resistances - I suspect the opportunity cost where you lose so many other enchantment possibilities for saves etc will balance that out sort of naturally.

EDIT: Another point to consider is you can always restrict what armor enchantments are allowed to go on a shield, for example only allow single resistance enchants or rule out the "better" ones such as Holy.
 
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