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Can we un-nerf Chill Touch now?

Starchild
I am not sure why Chill Touch was nerfed down to a 50% chance but this nerf removed a challenging and exciting method of play that I find I really miss. I don't read the forums much so I've no idea what the reasoning was (if indeed it was ever explained). Mages now just work like artillery which is OK but hardly exciting. Giving them the opportunity of charging in, trying to get a "Chill Touch" off followed by enough "Touch of Darknesses" before they were over-whelmed or ran out of stamina was a very different style of play that is now completely removed. Several of us have tried to get the "new style" Chill Touch working but there is just no way, the nerf has made it useless.

It was clearly never over-powered, I have never died so much as when I tried to get this working and with the new mobs doing so much more damage it would now be even less effective. And yet, I never minded dying less because it was such an adreneline rush trying to rush in, get the attacks ticking over and then get out again before stamina runs out. Everyone who I know who used this used to die far more than when playing in "artillery mode" and yet we did it anyway because it was FUN. This game is meant to be fun so please can we have this back now?

Thanks,

Starchild
Doom! Nightstalkers, evil crafters and bandits, Oh my!
The Eternal Balance
Isn't Touch of Darkness a Cleric Orison? Do maybe you mean Devourer's Caress? If so, I have seen it made good use of still for Mage Tanking. As it was, before the nerf, it turned Wizard's into better tanks than fully geared out Unbreakable warriors.
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
coach
Yea it was Chill Touch and Devourer's Caress and it is utterly useless now. You can't afford to use it because by the time chill touch works, you are already beat to hell and then devourers caress doesn't heal you as much.

It would be nice to have it back.
coach
Azure_Zero
The Eternal Balance
Isn't Touch of Darkness a Cleric Orison? Do maybe you mean Devourer's Caress? If so, I have seen it made good use of still for Mage Tanking. As it was, before the nerf, it turned Wizard's into better tanks that fully geared out Unbreakable warriors.

Yeah I remember the Chill Touch and Devourer's Caress combo, it was crazy broken and EVERYONE who was a wizard was using it since they could out tank ANY other class. So I think Chill Touch should stay as is or have that 50% no higher then 65-70%.
The Eternal Balance
coach
Yea it was Chill Touch and Devourer's Caress and it is utterly useless now. You can't afford to use it because by the time chill touch works, you are already beat to hell and then devourers caress doesn't heal you as much.

It would be nice to have it back.

Incorrect. I have seen it used effectively since the nerf on all but the very highest T3 mob escalations.
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
Maxen
I remember the days of Mistwalker tanking entire 30s of elite dark elves, but a number of things have changed greatly since Chill Touch-gate. First, ammo requirements certainly make it more costly to play that style of mage. Second, new leashing and aggro rules have changed the way “tanks” hold aggro. Frankly, star knife has replaced Chill Touch as king of the OP mountain. That will certainly change when deity and alignment requirements become a thing.

Back to Chill Touch. I think some adjustment is warranted considering other changes, but not as to the level of OPness it once possessed.
Azure_Zero
The Eternal Balance
coach
Yea it was Chill Touch and Devourer's Caress and it is utterly useless now. You can't afford to use it because by the time chill touch works, you are already beat to hell and then devourers caress doesn't heal you as much.

It would be nice to have it back.

Incorrect. I have seen it used effectively since the nerf on all but the very highest T3 mob escalations.

If that is true then, Yeah, the Nerf should stay AS IS.
Bob
We can certainly open this back up for discussion. Ammo went in at the same time that I tweaked Chill Touch to only have a 50% chance of inflicting Drained, so a lot of things changed all at once.

Though both Chill Touch and Devourer's Caress have lower damage/effect numbers overall than they previously did, that was part of a downward adjustment for all ammo-using attacks. Provided you're using appropriate ammo, that overall adjustment should be balanced out by the increased base damage and effect power from the ammo, or at least that was the intention. Unfortunately, I suspect there might be a problem with the Cure aspect of Devourer's Caress. I just did some quick testing and it doesn't look like the Cure amount is ramping up as you use better ammunition, though it does ramp up properly as you match more standard keywords. Most other effects do seem to be increasing with better ammunition, but Cure is a little special. Maybe there's a problem with just that effect, or with Self/Beneficial effects on attacks that mix Beneficial and Damaging together. We'll have to do some more digging to see exactly what's going on, but that could account for much of the feeling that this combo was nerfed.

I only made two intentional changes to the combo. The first was that in reducing Devourer's Caress to account for ammo, I focused pretty much all the reduction on the Cure aspect, instead of spreading it out with the amount of Exhausted or the base damage. Combine that with ammo not boosting Cure back up and you have a double whammy, but I could potentially return things a little closer the original balance between Cure and the other effects/damages for that attack.

The second change was the main one that's been brought up, lowering the percentage chance for inflicting Drained with Chill touch from 100% to 50%. The basic idea was to make things just a bit less predictable so you'd have to keep a closer eye on things, but it's true that there's a 1 in 16 chance of failing to apply Drained after 4 attacks, which could be such a high risk that players might not be willing to even risk rushing in. One option would be to raise the percentage to 75%, at which point there'd only be a 1 in 64 chance of failing 3 times. That's a lot more dependable without being a guarantee.

I could also raise it back up to 100%, and it wouldn't be the only case where a weapon has an attack that dependably sets up another attack on the same weapon. That said, this is clearly one of the most powerful of those combinations, though changes like ammo and line of sight may have cut that back a bit. Plus, whether I raise the percentage to 75% or 100%, I'd probably trade it off against providing a smaller amount of Drained with each success, so the effect would tend to fall off a little more often.

At the end of the day, if this is a little overpowered, but at the expense of burning through expensive charges (they're very quick attacks), that could be okay.

You are a Troll
Bob
We can certainly open this back up for discussion. Ammo went in at the same time that I tweaked Chill Touch to only have a 50% chance of inflicting Drained, so a lot of things changed all at once.

Though both Chill Touch and Devourer's Caress have lower damage/effect numbers overall than they previously did, that was part of a downward adjustment for all ammo-using attacks. Provided you're using appropriate ammo, that overall adjustment should be balanced out by the increased base damage and effect power from the ammo, or at least that was the intention. Unfortunately, I suspect there might be a problem with the Cure aspect of Devourer's Caress. I just did some quick testing and it doesn't look like the Cure amount is ramping up as you use better ammunition, though it does ramp up properly as you match more standard keywords. Most other effects do seem to be increasing with better ammunition, but Cure is a little special. Maybe there's a problem with just that effect, or with Self/Beneficial effects on attacks that mix Beneficial and Damaging together. We'll have to do some more digging to see exactly what's going on, but that could account for much of the feeling that this combo was nerfed.

I only made two intentional changes to the combo. The first was that in reducing Devourer's Caress to account for ammo, I focused pretty much all the reduction on the Cure aspect, instead of spreading it out with the amount of Exhausted or the base damage. Combine that with ammo not boosting Cure back up and you have a double whammy, but I could potentially return things a little closer the original balance between Cure and the other effects/damages for that attack.

The second change was the main one that's been brought up, lowering the percentage chance for inflicting Drained with Chill touch from 100% to 50%. The basic idea was to make things just a bit less predictable so you'd have to keep a closer eye on things, but it's true that there's a 1 in 16 chance of failing to apply Drained after 4 attacks, which could be such a high risk that players might not be willing to even risk rushing in. One option would be to raise the percentage to 75%, at which point there'd only be a 1 in 64 chance of failing 3 times. That's a lot more dependable without being a guarantee.

I could also raise it back up to 100%, and it wouldn't be the only case where a weapon has an attack that dependably sets up another attack on the same weapon. That said, this is clearly one of the most powerful of those combinations, though changes like ammo and line of sight may have cut that back a bit. Plus, whether I raise the percentage to 75% or 100%, I'd probably trade it off against providing a smaller amount of Drained with each success, so the effect would tend to fall off a little more often.

At the end of the day, if this is a little overpowered, but at the expense of burning through expensive charges (they're very quick attacks), that could be okay.

LOL!!! How did I know this response would be coming! smile
Bringslite
Meh…. Pull out all the reasonable stops and turn the dials to max possible. Let the kids have some fun while Development drags on.

Make passes at tweaky balancing when there really are enuff players to gather some data.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
 
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