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New Subscription Model in EE 18

Cauchemar
Bob
… With all the variable involved though, the only way to really find out how it works out in-game is to give it a try.
I like this idea to at least see how it is now with all the newer variables in place. Thanks Bob.
Cauchemar is a new settlement finding it's place on the edge of the Echo Wood in the Shadow of the impenetrable Fort Inevitable.
If you want to play however you like then join Cauchemar today, all are welcome.
any questions, contact me at: cauchemar.pfo@gmail.com
You are a Troll
Pollywaffle
Bob
… we're pretty sure this won't be as OP as it was before …

Even pre-nerf, the mages were ineffective compared to proper tanks. A well built specialist tank needs to be able to take on multiple melee ninjas without kiting, which is not something mages could ever hope to do even pre-nerf. Anyone that thinks the old mages were actually OP either does not play enough or simply has no idea how to build a proper tanking character in PFO.

Mage tanking was an interesting/fun alternate built that offended the sensibilities of people coming from the old table top D&D tradition where wizards were traditionally "glass cannons". In non-D&D fantasy, the wizards are melee monsters that wade into combat against monstrous foes wearing cloth and armed with a stick. Gandulf being a classic example. If an identical ability had been applied to a heavy armor characters shield attacks no-one would have complained.

The most significant thing to come from the mage tanking farce is that the devs in this game pay far too much attention to non-playing or just incompetent forum warriors and not enough attention to the actual game mechanics. Mage tanking never worked the way people in these forums claimed it did, and a simple examination of the numbers involved should have revealed that.

Wow, that's some great forum warrioring Ms Waffle, especially for someone who got here only 3 posts ago.

Cheese Wiz DC Mage Tanks are a favorite of the IC, of which you are likely now one of, given your forceful, albeit misinformed, defense of them. I have seen them work their sickly artificial yellow spreadableness in the mixed group GoL escalations to great effect (before the nerf) where they could easily stand toe-to-toe with Ogre Legends even if Matrons were flinging fire at them due to their MUCH better resistances in Cloth Armor - something *traditional* tanks can only dream about, which is why you never see any of them at all in high level escalations where the threat of high non-physical damage exists. Post nerf they could still be used, but it was riskier and required more skill. How about we give Heavy Melee fighters a spammable attack that bestows upon them all of the resistances of Cloth Armor on every hit? Then they could march to war with the Cheesey Goodness of the DC Wiz and the yummily nourishing Wonder-bread and Bologna rogue feature star slingers. What fun!
Azure_Zero
You are a Troll
….

Wow, that's some great forum warrioring Ms Waffle, especially for someone who got here only 3 posts ago.

Cheese Wiz DC Mage Tanks are a favorite of the IC, of which you are likely now one of, given your forceful, albeit misinformed, defense of them. I have seen them work their sickly artificial yellow spreadableness in the mixed group GoL escalations to great effect (before the nerf) where they could easily stand toe-to-toe with Ogre Legends even if Matrons were flinging fire at them due to their MUCH better resistances in Cloth Armor - something *traditional* tanks can only dream about, which is why you never see any of them at all in high level escalations where the threat of high non-physical damage exists. Post nerf they could still be used, but it was riskier and required more skill. How about we give Heavy Melee fighters a spammable attack that bestows upon them all of the resistances of Cloth Armor on every hit? Then they could march to war with the Cheesey Goodness of the DC Wiz and the yummily nourishing Wonder-bread and Bologna rogue feature star slingers. What fun!

That Cheese Tank Mage combo was very powerful, And I was a witness to it in many high end escalations, the Cheese Tank Mage was next to invincible never needing to retreat.

If that Combo Comes back, then I want Heavy blades and LongBows attacks to do 3-5x their current damage with half their cooldown time, Minor cure and the Channel Utilities to have 1 sec cool downs and requiring set cleric levels for each level, and rogue sneak attack reactives give double their current amount, so every class has something broken and unbalanced about them, but every class is now balanced in how broken they can be.
NightmareSr
I started playing PFO after the chill touch attack was changed, so I think it would be cool to see how it would work now. I can imagine how it was overpowered with unlimited ammo so no reload delay, along without the very slow firing we have now when ammo runs out. But currently with it being a fast attack and chewing through ammo but only 50% chance of Drained I can't see how it is even a viable mechanic under the nerf, it seems worthless right now. Unless of course when I tried it I was doing something wrong. Seems to me like something should be changed with it cause a 50% chance of a critical condition for the style is just not going to work.
- Wandering gatherer (NightmareSr#2669 on discord)
BlackMoria
I don't have a dog in this fight. I will only point out that the nerf was pre-ammunition. Also, the AI mechanics were updated. And what high level escalations? I think any mage trying this Ninjas or Emerald Aristocrats will end up at the shrine quite a bit. Rooting to pull this off will get the mage killed in those. And keeping loaded up with charges is going to be a issue… take this from a fire mage using Flare and Burning Flume in escalations, which is why I mostly use the 'free' fire attacks granted by fire mastery. I could go through thousands of charges in a high level escalation. Look around - arrows everywhere in auction houses. Charges? Good luck find those in an auction house.

I suggest letting this play out when the new update comes out. Then complain if it indeed is still a problem. In all honesty, changing the attack time of Devourer's Caress or the stamina used on each attack fixes any issue with the Devourer's Caress by slowing down it's spamability would address the issue if there is still an issue with it. But let's see what the new 'baseline' is first before screaming the sky is falling.
Bob
Pollywaffle
Mage tanking never worked the way people in these forums claimed it did, and a simple examination of the numbers involved should have revealed that.

While the conversation around mage tanking brought this combo to my attention, it wasn't actually the reason I made the change. My concern was more that this particular combo was overpowered for one-on-one PvE combat, allowing mages to safely take on far tougher mobs than intended. It's not the only attack or combo with similar issues, but in my original tests, changing Drained to 50% mostly made it a little less predictable, while still effective. My mistake was not noticing the additional effects as ammo went in around the same time, and not realizing that was turning the Drained 50% into overkill.
Azure_Zero
Then Why not do it half way, change the current original 50% and the proposed 100% to 75% and this way the scale can be seen on which way it should be tipped.
If just Right Leave as is.
If found to be OP then lower it to 62.5% or back to 50%
If too weak then raise it to 87.5%

This Compromise will have both groups on the tank mage happy and Bob can then see where the Combo is in OPness, and this also fixes the issue that tends to happen with the balance fixes in that things get swung to extremes.

But other balance issue still need addressing; Heavy Weapons, Longbows, tokens, consumables.
A big ones that needs fixing is the Feuding/raiding/Capture system and closing loops holes that get used when feuds are on.

And one thing I would like is being able to track influence down to the nearest 10th of a whole number so I can see my progress in getting influence better.
Bob
Azure_Zero
Then Why not do it half way, change the current original 50% and the proposed 100% to 75% and this way the scale can be seen on which way it should be tipped.

I considered that, but there isn't currently a Drained 75% set up, which meant a mix of implementation and testing work before I could even apply it to this feat. Not particularly difficult, just some extra time involved. I also felt like part of the missing analysis here was "what was the effect of the ammo change alone," so I wanted to essentially reverse this change while still keeping all the changes specific to adding ammo.

Azure_Zero
But other balance issue still need addressing; Heavy Weapons, Longbows, tokens, consumables.
A big ones that needs fixing is the Feuding/raiding/Capture system and closing loops holes that get used when feuds are on.

And one thing I would like is being able to track influence down to the nearest 10th of a whole number so I can see my progress in getting influence better.

Agreed, those all need work or would be good additions. I'll add comments on them to the bug database, but the difference between them and this is that those all still need tracking down and have an unknown amount of work involved, where this was something I'd already looked into a while ago and could make simple changes quickly. Prioritization is harsh, but necessary.
Bob
FYI, there is now a Spellcrafter Structer on Zog. It's right by the bank in Goblinville, very hard to miss.
Azure_Zero
Could you fix the Test server so that subbed accounts act as subbed accounts on the Test Server?
 
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