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*Ahem* About those Alchemists...

BlackMoria
Well, the Eternal Youth holiday escalation is done and in the can. Bob probably needs a few days to do final admin as to rewards, etc.

Not wanting to be that 'guy' but I will be that 'guy'. So, Bob, let's talk Alchemists… What is the status of Alchemists and what is most likely the time frame to see the OE update with the Alchemist in it? smile
Bob
Well, you actually got a taste of the Alchemists in Seekers from the Citadel whenever you ran into mobs that looked empty-handed and throwing things at you for their attacks. They were using NPC variants of some planned Alchemist attacks (their numbers get adjusted to act like they just use unlimited average ammo).

For the full Alchemists, I had the bulk of the initial content work done before needing to pull it out of the build. I expect it to take another week or two to reintegrate all that content and finish up a couple loose ends. That's when things get trickier, because this is the first complete Role I've added and I'm not quite sure what I'm likely to find I've done wrong, or forgotten to do, once testing starts. There are also a couple small programming tasks that need doing, but nothing too complicated. Finally, I suspect the Alchemists will need a decent amount of time on Zog to get feedback and iterate on them before moving them to Live.

I'm hoping that all translates into late January or early February to officially release them in OE 2.
NightmareSr
Could you remind me what is needed to be able to test things on Zog? I haven't been as interested before but with the alchemist role I am interested.
- Wandering gatherer (NightmareSr#2669 on discord)
Bob
NightmareSr
Could you remind me what is needed to be able to test things on Zog? I haven't been as interested before but with the alchemist role I am interested.

The first thing you need is access permission. If you have that already, you'll see a section called Test Server on your Account page with a link for downloading the Test Server Client. That will install a separate copy of the game on your machine that will connect to Zog instead of Live. If you don't have access yet, just write to customer.support@pathfinderonline.com and I'll get you set up.

We haven't quite worked through how to keep your characters activated on Zog, but for the moment you can play in Free Trial Mode. We'll get that sorted out before the Alchemist goes up on Zog. I can also set you up with XP, achievements, items, that kind of thing, just again write to customer.support@pathfinderonline.com and we'll arrange a time to meet on Zog. I can also reactivate settlements or stock up settlement vaults, that kind of thing, just send in a request.
Edam
Its already been inferred that there will be new recipes. Will we also need to start collecting new mats/salvage for use in these new recipes?
Bob
Edam
Its already been inferred that there will be new recipes. Will we also need to start collecting new mats/salvage for use in these new recipes?

I'm not planning to add any new mats, and most of the new recipes will be crafting (as oppposed to refining or enchanting). I'm still fiddling with the ingredients, but my general plan is to keep the recipes similar to those for other items that feel like they'd be made from similar materials, but to then include more extracts or varnishes in the mix. For example, Formula Book recipes would be similar to Spellbook recipes, but with some of the other ingredient counts reduced and replaced with some varnish. Reagents (ammo) would be similar to potions, so they'd be primarily made from extracts, perhaps with a small amount of crystals mixed in.
Schedim
Bob
I'm not planning to add any new mats, and most of the new recipes will be crafting (as oppposed to refining or enchanting). I'm still fiddling with the ingredients, but my general plan is to keep the recipes similar to those for other items that feel like they'd be made from similar materials, but to then include more extracts or varnishes in the mix. For example, Formula Book recipes would be similar to Spellbook recipes, but with some of the other ingredient counts reduced and replaced with some varnish. Reagents (ammo) would be similar to potions, so they'd be primarily made from extracts, perhaps with a small amount of crystals mixed in.

I think this sounds like an excellent idea, with a greater spread of alternatives for the existing stuff the market will become more dynamic and feel less of a limited number of paths.

What about the new kids on the block, the enchanting stuff? Alchemists are on the liminal to be enchanters, will a odd enchantment ingredient show up as “activator” on the more special recipes?
Schedim: Peddler and dealer in stuff easily transported, restless wandering the land of the River. Trying to find out how to reawaken the cult of Hanspur. To realise this ambition I created the company named Rats of Hanspur.
You can reach me on: pfo.schedim@gmail.com
Bob
Schedim
What about the new kids on the block, the enchanting stuff? Alchemists are on the liminal to be enchanters, will a odd enchantment ingredient show up as “activator” on the more special recipes?

Before digging into that, it's important to distinguish between the Combat Alchemist role, which is what we're working on now, and the Crafting Alchemist (Expert variant) role, which basically already exists. Yes, there are links between them and yes, it's confusing that they're often both called Alchemists, but they are effectively two different things and it's possible to be one without being the other. Most importantly, our goal right now isn't to beef up the Crafting Alchemist, except where doing so feels necessary as part of implementing the Combat Alchemist, or where an easy win presents itself.

So, back to the question. I'm planning to keep the enchanting mats restricted to the enchanting system. That means enchanting mats only come into the picture to the degree that the Combat Alchemist role feels like it needs to make use of enchanting somehow. One way that could happen is if it feels like they need some new enchantments to support them. For the most part, the existing enchantments feel like they apply to Alchemists about as much as they do to Fighters or Rogues, but maybe we'll stumble on something that feels like it's missing as we're testing things out. We've also talked about the possibility of having the Alchemist Armor Feats use some new keywords, which could be applied to existing armor through enchanting, rather than making new armor recipes. Any new enchantments would require new enchanting recipes, meaning more recipes that use the existing enchanting mats (well, technically, the existing refined enchanting items made from those mats).

If some enchantments do feel needed, then it's possible we could make those enchanting recipes for the Crafting Alchemist rather than for the Spellcrafter. Need to think about how much sense that makes, but it's an interesting option and might not require any extra work (just label them as Alchemist recipes instead of Spellcraft recipes).

Harad Navar
It is possible that Combat Alchemist elixir crafting and Spellcraft enchanted crafting have some important differences. The Combat Alchemist may nave discovered how to reproduce the effects of enchanting with non magical components. These may be new, additional harvesting components or a different way to combine existing enchanting and regular components. I think it would improve the economy if most of the Combat Alchemist recipe components can be new, non-enchanting resources that lower level characters have a chance of harvesting.
Knowledge can explain the darkness, but it is not a light.
Bob
It's certainly possible that Alchemists could find alternative ways to "enchant" items that don't require as much (or any) enchanting resources, but they'd probably have to be a lot less powerful to make up for the comparative ease of gathering the resources.
 
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