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*Ahem* About those Alchemists...

Bob
Made significant progress on the Alchemists, but between the snow and a few other surprise crises, we couldn't devote much time to them this week. Might still be able to get an initial version of them up on Zog around the middle of next week, assuming no new crises.
Bob
Bob
Made significant progress on the Alchemists, but between the snow and a few other surprise crises, we couldn't devote much time to them this week. Might still be able to get an initial version of them up on Zog around the middle of next week, assuming no new crises.

As I mentioned elsewhere, we ran into some issues that required all our attention for the past couple days, and will likely continue to occupy much of our time for a few more days, so getting something on Zog probably won't happen until at least mid-late next week. Sorry for the delays. The joys of both developing and supporting a game at the same time.
NightmareSr
I realized it is delayed, but do you have any decisions made as far as where the new combat alchemist trainer will be added and if there will be a new building? You have us on the edge of our seats Bob.
- Wandering gatherer (NightmareSr#2669 on discord)
Edam
NightmareSr
I realized it is delayed, but do you have any decisions made as far as where the new combat alchemist trainer will be added and if there will be a new building? You have us on the edge of our seats Bob.

+1

It will be very annoying to take a building up to a higher level only to find out a week later it needs to be demolished to make way for something else.
Bob
NightmareSr
I realized it is delayed, but do you have any decisions made as far as where the new combat alchemist trainer will be added and if there will be a new building? You have us on the edge of our seats Bob.

I took some time to look over the current structures and designs for potential future ones. In general, new roles were meant to result in at least 1 new medium structure for their non-attack/specialty feats and to get most of their attack feats at one of the existing medium structures. Some also resulted in new large structures (which usually also worked for 1 or 2 previous roles), though most were intended to be added on to an existing large structure.

For alchemists, their non-attack feats could arguably be added on to the workshop, since they're similar to experts. However, I'll admit that feels like putting a lot on one building, especially when considering that some other roles get their buildings divided up (e.g. clerics by deity). Feels like it'd be more balanced to give them their own structure.

Likewise, their attack feats could be added on to the skirmisher, since they're kind of ranged and should probably include a dex component, but their attacks feel so different from anything else the skirmisher teaches. Again, feels like a dedicated building would be good.

Finally, they'd fit in well at the guild house for a large structure, but that already has so much stuff going on (rogues, experts, freeholders). Even when the other large structures get some additional roles, the guild house would easily stand out for covering so many. I'm thinking maybe a new large structure that covers combat alchemist, expert, and standard alchemist (including alchemy crafting).

Thoughts?
Azure_Zero
If one looks at the table top version a bit, I could see, Skirmisher being part of the needed training.

Now I could see Alchemist if it weren't tied to any of the main combat class buildings, that it'd likely either a building that experts use or where one can craft with alchemy.
Bob
Edam
It will be very annoying to take a building up to a higher level only to find out a week later it needs to be demolished to make way for something else.

This is an ongoing concern, since we'll probably keep adding structures over time. At the very least, we'll always try to provide plenty of warning before new structures arrive, or before existing structures change. In this case, we'll probably ship the alchemists without their structures initially, just so we can get them out the door. You'll be able to start training them in the NPC towns, where the trainers will probably just be added on to existing structures for now. I'm also considering adding a visiting combat alchemy trainer to the keeps in PC settlements temporarily, just so everyone can have a taste of training at home for a while (their trainer level would be set by the keep's upgrade level).

For the moment, if it's possible you'll want any combat alchemist structures at your settlement, probably best to hold off on any structures or upgrades that you might consider tearing down for them until we're ready to state exactly which structures they'll use. At worst, that means avoiding work in 2 medium slots or 1 large slot, depending on which you'd be most likely to tear down. Should have this sorted out soon.
Bob
Azure_Zero
If one looks at the table top version a bit, I could see, Skirmisher being part of the needed training.

Alchemists don't technically need to use the alchemist's tools as a weapon, and those who don't would probably find skirmisher-trained attack feats very appropriate. That will be particularly true if we eventually figure out a good way to incorporate the more poison-oriented aspect of alchemists. If we manage that, an alchemist with a dagger and bow could be very dangerous. The alchemist's tools themselves feel a little too int-oriented for the skirmisher though, but not really appropriate for the war wizard either.

Now I could see Alchemist if it weren't tied to any of the main combat class buildings, that it'd likely either a building that experts use or where one can craft with alchemy.

We'd initially just thought "great, we can put them on the alchemist structure," but then realized that putting them on a small structure feels pretty imbalanced when everything else has multiple medium structures. They could be attached to the lab structure, which is at least a medium structure, but then that's already pretty balanced against the other medium structures. Could work though. It's also possible that we could put a small number of the combat alchemist feats at the crafting alchemist structures, just enough to link the two aspects of alchemy together.
You are a Troll
Maybe add them to the Library? They are always studying/writing formulas and that is a medium building in need of some better reason to exist.
NightmareSr
I can see how the combat alchemist would fit well with the Skirmisher and rogue and obviously with the expert/freeholder, but for large buildings it seems like the guild house already has a ton with 4 trainers (Skirmisher, Rogue, Expert, and Freeholder). I also see how combat Alchemist has a connection to Dex based with throwing things, but doesn't the combat alchemist need Int for skillfully making/handling his elixirs/potions/bombs without hurting himself?
Also he should have to train more formally to learn about alchemy so wouldn't he fit well at a University? I know he isn't a Wizard but the University doesn't have a distinction of magic school or arcane knowledge really. Plus that would mean the guild with 4 trainers would have it's match and future roles could join the cathedral or garrison.
Just my 2 cents here.
- Wandering gatherer (NightmareSr#2669 on discord)
 
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