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Energy Resistance on all non-heavy armors

harneloot
Without combat logs (and the fact that most spell animations simply do nothing) I don't think you should make this change to armor and energy resistance. As Edam mentions above, its going to be an absurdly difficult (impossible really) endeavor to figure out what kind of energy resistance is needed in what kind of situation, which will be yet one more frustrating thing to have to deal with in PFO.

Besides that, the fact that you, Bob, said above that you believe you made sure every enchanting materiel is *reasonably available somewhere* fills me with no small amount of enmity. Have you ever actually tried to gather, refine and enchant a T3 item that uses super rare salvage drops and T3 enchanting essence? This is on top of even finding both the refining and crafting recipes. Since I am going to assume the answer is no, let me assure you it is a mind numbingly tedious process, and I LIKE to gather.

In my (always humble) opinion, enchantments *should* be rare and a special something extra you can add to items; making them a necessity for armor is going to be hugely annoying and down right impossible for many players.
Xyzzy - gatherer, yeoman archer, swamp monster.
Bob
One of the trickier aspects here is that the natural energy resistance granted to lighter armors was always meant to be just a temporary stand-in for the energy resistance that would come from enchantments, and the current armor enchantment bonuses for lighter armors are meant to be the replacement for those temporary values. As a result, the game now doubles up on those energy resistances for lighter armors. We let that happen because we knew it would take a fair amount of time before armor enchantments were more widely spread and planned to slowly throttle back the natural enchantments to the values they'd always intended to be, and we need to start doing so before the world settles into feeling like those doubled values are the proper state of things. Ideally we're doing so at roughly the same rate as enchanted equipment is becoming available.

There've been multiple good points made about some of the difficulties with armor enchantments here, ranging from the difficulties of knowing which ones apply best in different situations to just the difficulty of enchanting armor in the first place. For the moment, I think the first set of reductions in 2.1 is fairly small compared to the extra bonuses available to lighter armors from the enchantments. That makes it a reasonable way to get a first glimpse at just how problematic those issues are and what that says about continuing to head in that direction, either in terms of the pace of those reductions or in terms of other things that need to be done along the way. I will say that a lot of the game design assumed that this was the basic plan, so reconsidering it completely could have unknown repercussions, where fiddling around the edges is a lot safer.
NightmareSr
So is there an enchantment that can give a bonus to all energy resistances, so that I can get the enchanted light armor to match what I have gotten use to? Also can we get a list of which energy each mob in the game uses on us, so we can get the correct enchantments started?
Is this going to be the trend with this game, to add in features that make normal game plan more difficult and make it harder for new players to understand? The population is far too low, and I don't see any of this work as something that is going to increase the population.
Some of these things make it difficult to continue playing IMO.
- Wandering gatherer (NightmareSr#2669 on discord)
– Cauchemar is a Greater Nightmare – cauchemar.pfo@gmail.com
Bob
NightmareSr
So is there an enchantment that can give a bonus to all energy resistances, so that I can get the enchanted light armor to match what I have gotten use to?

There aren't any enchantments that off general energy resistance, but there are several that offer multiple resistances. You can also enchant necklaces and rings, so you can combine them together to cover most of the resistances, but not all of them.

NightmareSr
Also can we get a list of which energy each mob in the game uses on us, so we can get the correct enchantments started?

In the absence of the combat logs, I've been considering that, or at least some general guidelines for various types of enemies. It'd be a little tricky to put together because each enemy is defined through a chain of spreadsheets, and there isn't one single list of all the enemies in one place. Anyway, it's possible to do in a reasonable amount of time, though I'd also have to decide what to do about those few entities/groups that we've purposefully kept more mysterious.

NightmareSr
Is this going to be the trend with this game, to add in features that make normal game plan more difficult and make it harder for new players to understand?

In this particular case, this was meant to complete a system the way it was intended to be done in the first place, but had to initially be implemented in a placeholder way while we waited for enchanting to go in. In many respects, our goal here is to make things easier on players by eliminating another one of the "well, this works one way now, but keep in mind it will work differently in the future" aspects of the game. The other option in those cases is to just say instead that we've decided to keep things simpler, and in some cases we've done that. Here, if we'd chosen to keep the natural energy resistance closer to what it currently is, we'd really need to take the enchanting bonus to lighter armors out and revisit a lot of the game design to figure out which other balance aspects were dependent on lighter armors being more dependent on enchantments. Since sticking with the original design was relatively easy here, and made a lot more sense than having everyday clothing be somehow energy resistant, we went with the original design and planned to adjust from there as necessary.
BlackMoria
I don't mind the change with this caveat. Make resistance relatively easy with amount of materials in the making or make those material less rare. Because from experience, doing some enchantments takes a entire settlement weeks to gather to make ONE item. And spending hours in a hex gathering an enchantment material at a rate of 3 per hour of non stop gathering make some enchantments a long, mind numbing, screen punching, expletive filled, grueling grind. In bold to emphasis how NOT FUN it is.
NightmareSr
Bob, that all makes sense in theory, but as mentioned above the Enchantments are far too difficult for how necessary you are now making them.
I thought it was fine that enchantments were so tough since they are a "nice to have" and not a "necessity". However if the enchantments are going to be the only way to get energy resistance then they need to be much easier to gather for our current small population.
If the population were higher there would likely be more available for sale but there aren't enough people gathering to supply what is going to be needed so everyone with a cloth/light armor character is going to need.
I really think we need more players in the game before we need more mind numbing grinding activities, since those tend to drive players away from games.
- Wandering gatherer (NightmareSr#2669 on discord)
– Cauchemar is a Greater Nightmare – cauchemar.pfo@gmail.com
Bob
We can revisit some of the enchantment recipes/materials and see where there are specific problems, but it's tough to talk about in the abstract. Is there a specific enchantment folks feel I should dig into as an example of a particularly difficult one to line up the ingredients for?
NightmareSr
I made some lesser encumbrance, and those were hard enough that I quit at 3 items instead of 4 like I planned.
I was planning on the Greater encumbrance but I didn't think it was worth the frustration and the wasted time to gather all the same T1 mats then also the T2 mats, once I got my character to the level to gather the T2 enchantment mats.
It seems to be something best done by large groups, and there aren't many "large groups" in the game. (When a full party or 2 is a "large group", you know the population is low.)
I'm not sure if anyone has tried to make energy resistant armor yet since we didn't really need to.
Also, all of this might be wrong and other people might love grinding nodes and mobs for hours/days/weeks on end for part of an enchantment. All I can share accurately is my opinion and perspective.
I never have heard anyone say "man, I love gathering up enchantment mats every day." so doubt I am far off base here.
- Wandering gatherer (NightmareSr#2669 on discord)
– Cauchemar is a Greater Nightmare – cauchemar.pfo@gmail.com
harneloot
Bob, please tell me you realize we are not playing the game that Ryan, Stephen, Lee, Mike, Mark (and you) designed ALL those years ago…..right? Blind obedience to a long dead document by someone who doesn't play the game for hours a day (if at all) is, maybe, part of what (might be? is?) driving this game into the ground. Seriously dude - go read Bringslite's post! (and Rhethwyn'S, who started the thread)

https://goblinworks.com/forum/topic/5866/

THE GAME ISN'T VERY FUN RIGHT NOW AND MAKING IT MANDATORY TO GATHER VERY HARD TO FIND ENCHANTMENT MATERIALS IS NOT GOING TO MAKE IT MORE FUN. WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO MAKE IT MORE FUN FOR THE DAY TO DAY (NON-SETTLEMENT OWNING) PLAYER???
Xyzzy - gatherer, yeoman archer, swamp monster.
Edam
Bob
We can revisit some of the enchantment recipes/materials and see where there are specific problems, but it's tough to talk about in the abstract. Is there a specific enchantment folks feel I should dig into as an example of a particularly difficult one to line up the ingredients for?

OK … so taking just one example of many:

First thing to note is that any player that has been in the game more than a few months will be wearing either T2+3 or T3+3 armor meaning you need a +3 enchantment or lose an armor keyword. At T3, wearing T3+2 armor is probably not a good tradeoff (8% hit on bonuses to a whole bunch of stats like HP, Power, Saves etc) , people are going to be enchanting T3+3 or not bother.

Now - those people with access to very high level spellcrafters may get away with making the enchanted components at +2, though many people will be looking at +3 refined enchanted mats.

Assuming we CAN use +2 enchanted mats and taking a likely popular T3 choice - Mage Armor and looking at just one component of the Mage Armor enchantment, the 10 Grounded Steel Wire. To make enough Grounded Steel Wire +2 to enchant one T3 armor you need 33 Earth Elemental Spirits (or 57 if you are making +3 wire).

So your going to need to kill off 5 to 10 Elemental escalations to get enough Earth Elemental Spirit to enchant one suit of armor without all the other mats.

That is just one example of many.

Is that doable? Well yes if you blitz them with a good T3 party you might get an elemental escalation down in under an hour, your limiting factor with a good party will be the 6 minute wait between quests, so you might get 33 Earth Spirit over a few nights if you find enough elemental escalations. However you still need to gather/salvage all the other enchanted mats in the recipe and the gathering in some cases needs a level 17 gatherer. It is something a committed group can achieve easy enough with focus and time. However its going to be very hard to do solo especially if you are only in low T3.
 
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