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Energy Resistance on all non-heavy armors

Bob
Even from the beginning, the plan was always to adjust the design whenever we learned new things from the way the game wound up actually being played. We're not locked into particular aspects of the design if changing them would clearly make the game better.

That said, the current situation is just plain broken, with lighter armors getting both the base energy resistances and the outsized enchantment resistances. We need to start backing out of that now that players are starting to amass a fair number of enchantments, so we began gradually implementing the last part of the plan with OE 2.1. As always though, we take the community's feedback seriously and are open to a mix of different solutions. That could mean switching away from the relatively simple "no base energy resistances, lighter armors take better advantage of enchantments instead" or could focus more on mitigating related issues like the difficulty in enchanting armor or the difficulty in knowing which energy resistance is best against certain enemies. Or some mix of all of the above, though ideally in ways that don't require a lot of code.

However, I don't think sticking with the way things were in OE 2.0 is feasible at this point, since it's very unbalanced. We need to either move toward the original plan, or remove the enchanting advantages to lighter armors, or find a middle ground.
Gross
Bob
However, I don't think sticking with the way things were in OE 2.0 is feasible at this point, since it's very unbalanced. We need to either move toward the original plan, or remove the enchanting advantages to lighter armors, or find a middle ground.

Indeed, given the current economy / player base / combat system removing the enchanting resistance advantages to lighter armour is more reasonable than crippling roles by following the original plan.
Mercenary monster hunter from Forgeholm
War priest of Angradd… patiently waiting on Goblinworks to deliver him (and greataxes, Dwarves need 2 handed axes).
Bob
Edam
Assuming we CAN use +2 enchanted mats and taking a likely popular T3 choice - Mage Armor and looking at just one component of the Mage Armor enchantment, the 10 Grounded Steel Wire. To make enough Grounded Steel Wire +2 to enchant one T3 armor you need 33 Earth Elemental Spirits (or 57 if you are making +3 wire).

So your going to need to kill off 5 to 10 Elemental escalations to get enough Earth Elemental Spirit to enchant one suit of armor without all the other mats.

Perfect, specific numbers to dig into. Your assumption that you can use +2 enchanted mats is reasonable, particularly if you just think of it as using the +2 refining recipe. With a good smelter, you can expect a +2 project to return a decent mix of +2/3 wire, giving a good spellcrafter a good start toward going from +2 to +3 that can be helped along nicely by using a +3/4 crystal (those being unenchanted and far easier to come by). At the very least, we can say that the average amount of Earth Elemental Spirit needed to produce a +3 Mage Resistance enchantment is somewhere between 33 and 57, probably closer to the 33 with very high level crafters and refiners.

This is a good example because the refining output matches up perfectly with the amount of refined mats required for the enchantment. Some others don't line up as well so it feels like you need a ton of raw materials to make the enchantment, but you're actually winding up with lots of refined materials left over, sometimes enough for another enchantment entirely.

So, how hard is it to line up 33 Earth Elemental Spirits? As an experiment, I "soloed" an Elemental Rift on Zog, by which I mean I teleported around a lot and GM-Killed everything in sight. I did finish 2 events along the way, but that actually reduces the chance of getting enchanting salvage a bit because events take away strength without giving out enchanting salvage. You're actually better off focusing on the random mobs instead if what you really want is enchanting salvage. The GM character I used had no knowledge skills, so I wasn't getting a loot bonus, and was alone, so I didn't get a party bonus either. The drops are random, so it's hard to say how typical my results were, but I got about 20 Earth Elemental Spirits by the time I "killed" the boss where it sounds like you're seeing closer to 4-5 per escalation. What kind of results are other people seeing?
Edam
Bob
The drops are random, so it's hard to say how typical my results were, but I got about 20 Earth Elemental Spirits by the time I "killed" the boss where it sounds like you're seeing closer to 4-5 per escalation. What kind of results are other people seeing?

The 5 per escalation is a guesstimate from memory and it may have been more like 8 or 10 though I very much doubt 20, I would remember if I ever got 20.

However note that my numbers would have been in a party (which reduces personal drops a fair bit) and we almost certainly would be doing all the quests as well.
NightmareSr
I haven't paid close attention to all enchantment Salvage mats, but I did focus closely on the T1 gathered mats for awhile. The issue I have with enchantment crafting is the mats required for the recipe are similar in quantity to all other recipes, but the gathered enchanting mats drop about 10-15% as frequent and they don't generate a Bountiful Harvest. So we have to gather it the long way and at best it takes hours-days for enough to make 1 item. T2 and T3 just increase the rarity and time spent exponentially.
Either the rarity of mats needs to decrease or we the recipes need to be reduced to not require 30+ mats. Making them rare and needed in high volume is just mean IMO.
- Wandering gatherer (NightmareSr#2669 on discord)
– Cauchemar is a Greater Nightmare – cauchemar.pfo@gmail.com
Gross
Elemental essences are close to Edam's finding in my experience, I find getting @ 20-25 essences in total for taking elementals down, split across the 4 varieties is enough to leave me feeling it was a job well done, often finish with a couple less, under 20 total and I will grumble that it was rubbish and my dice were cold.

This is normally as a member of a party of from 4-6 toons doing quests to speed it up, my knowledge skill only L10 or L11.
Mercenary monster hunter from Forgeholm
War priest of Angradd… patiently waiting on Goblinworks to deliver him (and greataxes, Dwarves need 2 handed axes).
Bob
To put everyone's minds at ease, we're not planning to make any more reductions until we see how this first reduction plays out, and a lot of good points have been made here that we'll be working through before making any other changes. Hopefully this partial reduction will actually work out pretty well for the time-being, assuming it's large enough to at least partially justify leaving in the enchantment bonus for lighter armors but small enough not to make those enchantments essential. We'll see how it plays out and adjust from there.

Ultimately, it does seem like there's a conflict between having enchantments be somewhat special and hard to come by while also making them increasingly essential for characters in lighter armor. In theory, we could make those particular enchantments easier to come by, but making them as easy to come by as the armor itself would be challenging.

In general, this will probably require a pretty deep dive before we make any more changes, meaning we probably won't be able to tackle anything other than some fiddling around the edges until we finish off a couple other priorities first.
Bob
Edam
However note that my numbers would have been in a party (which reduces personal drops a fair bit) and we almost certainly would be doing all the quests as well.

This is one of those areas where we have to hope that not everyone in the party is pursuing the exact same loot and that there can be at least some minimal trading at the end of the session. It's tough to balance things such that individuals can pursue everything based purely on their own drops without making everything trivial for even minimally-organized groups. Oh, my kingdom for a more active economy!
Bob
Gross
Elemental essences are close to Edam's finding in my experience, I find getting @ 20-25 essences in total for taking elementals down, split across the 4 varieties is enough to leave me feeling it was a job well done, often finish with a couple less, under 20 total and I will grumble that it was rubbish and my dice were cold.

This is one of the other important things to remember, that the one particular item being pursued isn't the only valuable thing dropping. A single escalation may only get you so much closer to the specific enchantment you want, but it's also getting you closer to others, not to mention all the other loot along the way. Of course, that's all easier to leverage with an active economy. Did I mention that kingdom I'm trading?
harneloot
Please understand Bob that at this point, yes, that one specific drop is pretty much the only thing (most) of the players still playing the game are after, especially if enchanting armor becomes a de-facto necessity (and further we have to GUESS what enchantments to apply). You keep thinking/saying that ALL that time spent chasing after uber rare stuff is going to net everyone LOTS of other valuable stuff and that simply isn't true, and that makes it painfully obvious that you do not play the game, and have not played the game, on a regular basis for the past 6 years. If you REALLY want an active economy, then DO something to get more players hooked into the game!

How about you just drop the enchantment bonus to lighter armors and call it a day and focus efforts on things that will make New Players more likely to try PFO and stick around if they do?
Xyzzy - gatherer, yeoman archer, swamp monster.
 
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