Fun With Content

Bob 07.14.2020 15:49
	OrinSonders It seems the Choose Your Own Escalation! option was popular among the player base. I'd like to see it continue in some limited form. If a Settlement could accomplish a set of reasonable conditions or quests, they could earn the right to call in an escalation to their assigned hex like what was done during the Home Sweet Home Event. To avoid using code, requirements would have to be something Bob could monitor, or items gathered or created that could be turned in, etc. I would think with limited coding, a charm/totem item could be added to the crafting recipes list for Seneschal that used Bulk Resources, Tokens, Refined Mats, Codex, etc. of an acceptable quantity. A different charm/totem to summon Tier 1,2,3. Maybe even different recipes for each of the different escalations. In effect, create "lures" a Settlement could set out for each of the different types. Molochs like to burn things. Goblins like FOOD! The above figures on Bob doing the work manually each time. Hopefully with minimal coding, the lure could be made durable to some extent and add a certain percentage increase to the chance a certain type of escalation drops into the hex each time it is cleared. This is a feature we've long wanted to add through code, but yeah, I'm open to a more GM-adjudicated system as long as it didn't require launching escalations too often. It's not particularly difficult to do, but each request does take a little time to process. A system using recipes to create lures and then giving those lures to me in exchange for an escalation launch could work well, provided the recipes were difficult enough to put together, or provided other limitations were placed on the number of escalation launches. Quote

Bob 07.14.2020 15:49

OrinSonders
It seems the Choose Your Own Escalation! option was popular among the player base. I'd like to see it continue in some limited form. If a Settlement could accomplish a set of reasonable conditions or quests, they could earn the right to call in an escalation to their assigned hex like what was done during the Home Sweet Home Event. To avoid using code, requirements would have to be something Bob could monitor, or items gathered or created that could be turned in, etc.

I would think with limited coding, a charm/totem item could be added to the crafting recipes list for Seneschal that used Bulk Resources, Tokens, Refined Mats, Codex, etc. of an acceptable quantity. A different charm/totem to summon Tier 1,2,3. Maybe even different recipes for each of the different escalations. In effect, create "lures" a Settlement could set out for each of the different types. Molochs like to burn things. Goblins like FOOD!

The above figures on Bob doing the work manually each time. Hopefully with minimal coding, the lure could be made durable to some extent and add a certain percentage increase to the chance a certain type of escalation drops into the hex each time it is cleared.

This is a feature we've long wanted to add through code, but yeah, I'm open to a more GM-adjudicated system as long as it didn't require launching escalations too often. It's not particularly difficult to do, but each request does take a little time to process. A system using recipes to create lures and then giving those lures to me in exchange for an escalation launch could work well, provided the recipes were difficult enough to put together, or provided other limitations were placed on the number of escalation launches.

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Bob 07.14.2020 15:53
	The Eternal Balance I also wonder what the mysterious Effort Bonus column in the Official Spreadsheets next to the different Outpost types refers to? The long-term plan is for characters to assign themselves to outposts somehow and then base Effort on the skills of the assigned characters. That's pretty far out in our plans, and probably needs some rethinking. For now, we just assign a set Effort value to all outposts. Quote

Bob 07.14.2020 15:53

The Eternal Balance
I also wonder what the mysterious Effort Bonus column in the Official Spreadsheets next to the different Outpost types refers to?

The long-term plan is for characters to assign themselves to outposts somehow and then base Effort on the skills of the assigned characters. That's pretty far out in our plans, and probably needs some rethinking. For now, we just assign a set Effort value to all outposts.

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Bob 07.14.2020 15:59
	Azure_Zero Some of use would like to have the escalations pop into hexes other then the settlement's hex, since a settlement's hex could change. The original idea was that this feature would be used to attract escalations near your enemies as part of territorial warfare. Kind of funny that now the idea tends to be attracting the escalation nearby in order to loot it. Regardless, we certainly wouldn't have to restrict launches to only assigned hexes, provided the rules were posted well enough in advance. Azure_Zero And I also put fore the idea that calling in a escalation could also be put into a home hex to shake things up from the normal stagnant state. That's a little more problematic because the home hexes are supposed to be dependable places to find their home mobs. In particular, all the current kill quests point to home hexes and say you can always go to those hexes to find those mobs. At minimum, we'd want to reward those kill quests a bit to allow for the possibility of other escalations running there. Quote

Bob 07.14.2020 15:59

Azure_Zero
Some of use would like to have the escalations pop into hexes other then the settlement's hex, since a settlement's hex could change.

The original idea was that this feature would be used to attract escalations near your enemies as part of territorial warfare. Kind of funny that now the idea tends to be attracting the escalation nearby in order to loot it. Regardless, we certainly wouldn't have to restrict launches to only assigned hexes, provided the rules were posted well enough in advance.

Azure_Zero
And I also put fore the idea that calling in a escalation could also be put into a home hex to shake things up from the normal stagnant state.

That's a little more problematic because the home hexes are supposed to be dependable places to find their home mobs. In particular, all the current kill quests point to home hexes and say you can always go to those hexes to find those mobs. At minimum, we'd want to reward those kill quests a bit to allow for the possibility of other escalations running there.

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Bob 07.14.2020 16:24
	Rynnik I can't stand MMOs with pvp opt in flags as it destroys the only truly interesting element of a virtual world, the unpredictable interaction with other players. We haven't completely finalized the exact way Flag for PvP would work, and it's probably not worth a deep-dive until we're closer to working on it, but a couple quick points that might make you feel better about it. First, one option we've been talking about is the ability to permanently flag yourself for PvP, so for those who do enjoy that unpredictability, it's not something you'd necessarily have to do manually each time you log in or every time you want to start a fight. Second, we do still plan on putting restrictions on players who don't flag for PvP, though we haven't decided on the exact restrictions. The more an action or its benefits feels connected to Territorial PvP or risky behaviors, the more likely that we'll require explicitly flagging for PvP. In particular, gathering/looting in unfriendly territory is likely to require flagging for PvP. We may also restrict influence based on being flagged, since influence is used to claim territory and start feuds. This all still requires a lot more thought, don't take any of it as written, but do know that any unflagged character you run into will be restricting themselves in some way in order to avoid PvP. At its core, the real question is whether you'd rather run into X other characters each session, with Y of them unflagged, or X - Y (or less) characters each session. The ability to remain unflagged really is focused on those players who won't play the game at all if there's any risk of PvP, and we'd like to make it possible for those players to enjoy a reasonably-complete form of the game wherever doing so doesn't interfere with the enjoyment of those players more willing to engage in PvP. Where it does interfere, we'll put in the necessary restrictions. Quote

Bob 07.14.2020 16:24

Rynnik
I can't stand MMOs with pvp opt in flags as it destroys the only truly interesting element of a virtual world, the unpredictable interaction with other players.

We haven't completely finalized the exact way Flag for PvP would work, and it's probably not worth a deep-dive until we're closer to working on it, but a couple quick points that might make you feel better about it.

First, one option we've been talking about is the ability to permanently flag yourself for PvP, so for those who do enjoy that unpredictability, it's not something you'd necessarily have to do manually each time you log in or every time you want to start a fight.

Second, we do still plan on putting restrictions on players who don't flag for PvP, though we haven't decided on the exact restrictions. The more an action or its benefits feels connected to Territorial PvP or risky behaviors, the more likely that we'll require explicitly flagging for PvP. In particular, gathering/looting in unfriendly territory is likely to require flagging for PvP. We may also restrict influence based on being flagged, since influence is used to claim territory and start feuds. This all still requires a lot more thought, don't take any of it as written, but do know that any unflagged character you run into will be restricting themselves in some way in order to avoid PvP.

At its core, the real question is whether you'd rather run into X other characters each session, with Y of them unflagged, or X - Y (or less) characters each session. The ability to remain unflagged really is focused on those players who won't play the game at all if there's any risk of PvP, and we'd like to make it possible for those players to enjoy a reasonably-complete form of the game wherever doing so doesn't interfere with the enjoyment of those players more willing to engage in PvP. Where it does interfere, we'll put in the necessary restrictions.

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Harad Navar 07.14.2020 19:54
	Even though the coding load may be prohibitive, what if the penalty for killing non-PvP flagged characters would be to become a wanted criminal with random roving bands of Hell Knights attacking on sight. If they kill the PC in question, the PC husk is collected by the Hell Knights with a percentage of the value (or loot) given as a wergild to the killed character. May not satisfy most players who want no chance of PvP. But they might appreciate the payback. Knowledge can explain the darkness, but it is not a light. Quote

Harad Navar 07.14.2020 19:54

Even though the coding load may be prohibitive, what if the penalty for killing non-PvP flagged characters would be to become a wanted criminal with random roving bands of Hell Knights attacking on sight. If they kill the PC in question, the PC husk is collected by the Hell Knights with a percentage of the value (or loot) given as a wergild to the killed character.

May not satisfy most players who want no chance of PvP. But they might appreciate the payback.

Knowledge can explain the darkness, but it is not a light.

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You are a Troll 07.14.2020 20:00
	Rynnik Flari-Merchant Edit: To answer that question I would say that early game PVP(all kinds lumped as one) was experienced by myself, and turned out to be more fun than I thought, about 5-10%. Last 3 years .0001% or less. I haven't found PvP since I've been back to the game which has mostly consisted in time remembering mechanics, then doing the 'run around the whole map quest', then scouting for empty hexes for outposts to realize there weren't any. A lot of travel without any encounters (which I'd expect to lose since I'm only T2). EVE online took hours to find a fight sometimes. I'm starting to think it would take weeks in PFO to actually find someone randomly out gathering or pveing that you could randomly gank. This is exactly why the "Flag for PvP" needs to be - and will be - implemented. This is not what PFO is about (at least any more). Quote

You are a Troll 07.14.2020 20:00

Rynnik
Flari-Merchant
Edit: To answer that question I would say that early game PVP(all kinds lumped as one) was experienced by myself, and turned out to be more fun than I thought, about 5-10%. Last 3 years .0001% or less.

I haven't found PvP since I've been back to the game which has mostly consisted in time remembering mechanics, then doing the 'run around the whole map quest', then scouting for empty hexes for outposts to realize there weren't any. A lot of travel without any encounters (which I'd expect to lose since I'm only T2). EVE online took hours to find a fight sometimes. I'm starting to think it would take weeks in PFO to actually find someone randomly out gathering or pveing that you could randomly gank.

This is exactly why the "Flag for PvP" needs to be - and will be - implemented. This is not what PFO is about (at least any more).

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Harad Navar 07.14.2020 20:10
	Another thought: Suppose when a player creates a character they can choose non-PvP or PvP as an option? The non-PvP character would spawn in Fort Inevitable (which would require FI to be put into game). This would make that character under protection of the Hell Knights, making the roving bands of Hell Knight bounty hunters a more believable part of the game story. Knowledge can explain the darkness, but it is not a light. Quote

Harad Navar 07.14.2020 20:10

Another thought:
Suppose when a player creates a character they can choose non-PvP or PvP as an option? The non-PvP character would spawn in Fort Inevitable (which would require FI to be put into game). This would make that character under protection of the Hell Knights, making the roving bands of Hell Knight bounty hunters a more believable part of the game story.

Knowledge can explain the darkness, but it is not a light.

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Flari-Merchant 07.14.2020 20:50
	Is coming across a character pulling a mule along and killing the character and mule to see whats in there a "random" gank? Is coming across a character alone and killing her to see what is in backpack inventory a "random" gank? Is it just the word "gank" that is the problem? Quote

BlackMoria 07.15.2020 13:26
	Flari-Merchant Is coming across a character pulling a mule along and killing the character and mule to see whats in there a "random" gank? Is coming across a character alone and killing her to see what is in backpack inventory a "random" gank? Is it just the word "gank" that is the problem? To your first question - yes To your second question - yes Modify the first and second question as follows. Is coming across a character 'of a company that my company is feuding' pulling a mule along and killing the character and mule to see whats in there a "random" gank? Answer - No Is coming across a character alone of a company that my company is feuding and killing her to see what is in backpack inventory a "random" gank? Answer - No Why the difference - in your questions, the target is anyone, anywhere and therefore, meets the criteria of 'random'. In my modifications of your questions, it isn't random. It is specific targeting and fully within the bounds of the feud system and therefore is not, by definition, random. So, let's look at another situation. Xyzzy has declared the swamp monster hex his territory. Most players know that. He has proclaimed in forum posts and more than a few times in General Chat. Another player goes into the swamp monster hex and gets killed by Xyzzy. Was this a random gank? The answer is NO. Anyone who as spend some time in game knows about his claim. He has proclaimed it his territory and has proclaimed the consequences of going into there. So, someone getting killed by Xyzzy in the swamp is a known outcome of trespass into the territory he has proclaimed as his. So, not random. Expected. Quote

BlackMoria 07.15.2020 13:26

Flari-Merchant
Is coming across a character pulling a mule along and killing the character and mule to see whats in there a "random" gank?
Is coming across a character alone and killing her to see what is in backpack inventory a "random" gank?

Is it just the word "gank" that is the problem?

To your first question - yes
To your second question - yes

Modify the first and second question as follows.

Is coming across a character 'of a company that my company is feuding' pulling a mule along and killing the character and mule to see whats in there a "random" gank?
Answer - No

Is coming across a character alone of a company that my company is feuding and killing her to see what is in backpack inventory a "random" gank?
Answer - No

Why the difference - in your questions, the target is anyone, anywhere and therefore, meets the criteria of 'random'.
In my modifications of your questions, it isn't random. It is specific targeting and fully within the bounds of the feud system and therefore is not, by definition, random.

So, let's look at another situation.
Xyzzy has declared the swamp monster hex his territory. Most players know that. He has proclaimed in forum posts and more than a few times in General Chat.
Another player goes into the swamp monster hex and gets killed by Xyzzy. Was this a random gank? The answer is NO. Anyone who as spend some time in game knows about his claim. He has proclaimed it his territory and has proclaimed the consequences of going into there. So, someone getting killed by Xyzzy in the swamp is a known outcome of trespass into the territory he has proclaimed as his. So, not random. Expected.

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Bob 07.15.2020 15:24
	Harad Navar Even though the coding load may be prohibitive, what if the penalty for killing non-PvP flagged characters would be to become a wanted criminal with random roving bands of Hell Knights attacking on sight. If they kill the PC in question, the PC husk is collected by the Hell Knights with a percentage of the value (or loot) given as a wergild to the killed character. May not satisfy most players who want no chance of PvP. But they might appreciate the payback. That particular idea would definitely be a lot of code work, but I do think that payback mechanisms in general can go a long way toward making players who are at least somewhat accepting of PvP more willing to flag for it more often, and we do want players to be available for PvP as much as possible. I suspect anything like that wouldn't be part of the initial implementation, but would be some polish we could look into afterward. Quote

Bob 07.15.2020 15:24

Harad Navar
Even though the coding load may be prohibitive, what if the penalty for killing non-PvP flagged characters would be to become a wanted criminal with random roving bands of Hell Knights attacking on sight. If they kill the PC in question, the PC husk is collected by the Hell Knights with a percentage of the value (or loot) given as a wergild to the killed character.

May not satisfy most players who want no chance of PvP. But they might appreciate the payback.

That particular idea would definitely be a lot of code work, but I do think that payback mechanisms in general can go a long way toward making players who are at least somewhat accepting of PvP more willing to flag for it more often, and we do want players to be available for PvP as much as possible. I suspect anything like that wouldn't be part of the initial implementation, but would be some polish we could look into afterward.

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