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Start Over

Flari-Merchant
@ Drizzle
Since you asked, I am questioning whether mechanics that require built up settlement maintenance are really needed when the population is so low. You have to if you want to enjoy the exp and feats you have bought (over time) to their fullest potential.

*You want to gather as much as you can and find the cool stuff?
*You want to craft those recipes that you have found, learned and trained for?
*You want to be able to fight those mobs that are the most exciting and most rewarding in quest of good loot, best recipes and spells and maneuvers?

Well, you got to live in(be a citizen) a settlement that supports lvl 20 skills if you have been playing for a while. That takes someone some effort to maintain. Some(there aren't really many players about anyway) are voicing that it is a system that is not real fun when handled, for a long time, by only one or very few players.

It is a neat system for a busy living world but I am just questioning if it really is relevant enough now(given the pop is so low) that it is worth the frustration it can bring to logging into the game to do chores.
Flari-Merchant
@ Bob
Thank You for taking the time to answer those questions. We appreciate how interactive and open you are with us. smile
Edam
Flari-Merchant
*You want to gather as much as you can and find the cool stuff?

level 13 settlement support will get you T3
level 16 settlement support gets you enchanted T3 gathering

Flari-Merchant
*You want to be able to fight those mobs that are the most exciting and most rewarding in quest of good loot, best recipes and spells and maneuvers?

level 15 settlement support is good enough for T3 combat PCs running PvE all the way up to Airstocrats, though level 16 is a touch better.

You may need to overtrain a few things for example take your armor feat to 13 instead of 12 but all in all level 15/16 is fine for a T3 combat toon.

Flari-Merchant
*You want to craft those recipes that you have found, learned and trained for?

OK .. here you got me .. if you do not have level 20 support you cannot make anything that needs level 20 crafting. It is true that high level crafters may need to be attached to a friendly company in a level 20 settlement somewhere.

You can of course get local settlement support up around 17 and buy a crafter cottage but that option is severely limited by the fact that you can only place one crafting cottage at a time and most high level crafters are level 20 in multiple things. That is a particularly stupid restriction (presumable in place due to limited housing spots - but you could just have all houses owned by a single character share a single spot) but this is not the thread to discuss it.

HOWEVER my question is do a majority of people actually want to entirely scrap the support system so that you can run level 20 everything on a character even if they are attached to a settlement with no buildings or possibly no settlement at all? This is a serious question as their seems to be a tendency lately for people to just acquire settlements and leave them pretty much un-built. Scapping support would allow those low level settlements to stay empty but support high level characters. Is that a good thing? no idea - I have no opinion on this either way
Flari-Merchant
Edam
Flari-Merchant
*You want to gather as much as you can and find the cool stuff?

level 13 settlement support will get you T3
level 16 gets you enchanted T3 gathering
Will anything less than level 20 support get you lvl 20 skills like speed and pull of material averages?
Flari-Merchant
*You want to be able to fight those mobs that are the most exciting and most rewarding in quest of good loot, best recipes and spells and maneuvers?

level 15 is good enough for T3 combat PCs running PvE all the way up to Airstocrats, though level 16 is a touch better. You may need to overtrain a few things for example take your armor feat to 13 instead of 12 but all in all level 15/16 is fine.
This is an opinion and judgement. I like to maximize and utilize the things that I have paid subscription and time and work for through the years. So, yeah, good enough is ok for some but not all. I can last longer and do more if my skills are higher than I can if they are lower. That is also a preference, but a true fact as well.

Flari-Merchant
*You want to craft those recipes that you have found, learned and trained for?

OK .. here you got me .. if you do not have level 20 support you cannot make anything that needs level 20 crafting. It is true that high level crafters may need to be attached to a friendly company in a level 20 settlement somewhere.

You can of course by a house but that option is severely limited by the fact that you can only place one crafting cottage at a time and most high level crafters are level 20 in multiple things.

HOWEVER my question is do a majority of people actually want to entirely scrap the support system so that you can run level 20 everything on a character even if they are attached to a settlement with no buildings or possibly no settlement at all? This is a serious question as their seems to be a tendency lately for people to just acquire settlements and leave them pretty much un-built. Scapping support would allow those low level settlements to stay empty but support high level characters. Is that a good thing? no idea - I have no opinion on this either way
First, who says anything about scraping any system? I am only asking if it is really needed at this time. Second. Is the support system really relevant right now? Will it slowly but surely choke off whatever enthusiasm is left in a few of the cpl dozen that seem to be active still. I guess if it won't then it is a non issue. If it will, maybe it should be looked at. Seems like the low pop thing is going to be a factor for a long time to come. Couple of years at least.

So I can only offer how I feel about it. Which I have done. smile
Edam
OK … so yes there are a few people that will be effected by support. The occasional Phaeros player that we randomly see around Keepers Pass would be affected for example, as are the couple of people I am aware of that are still attached to former Aeonian league settlements. Returning Golgothans or Brighthaven residents if there are any would face similar issues. However I suspect if those players wanted to temporarily attach a company to any of the level 20 settlements (Aragorn, KP, UC, Ozems, Carpe etc etc)until their home settlement gets up to speed it would be relatively simple to organise.

Crafting support is the biggest issue for a small settlement btw. Everything else is workable in a settlement with just +2/+3 buildings.
Flari-Merchant
Meh, it might be too drastic a move for so small a group who may actually care. I can see that. If it were to be done for frustration purposes, it should have been done long ago when things were getting clearly slow. Probably wouldn't be worth the effort now.

Was just posing the question and backing up the thought. It is nice to see a mini spike in forum activity though. smile
Edam
Will anything less than level 20 support get you lvl 20 skills like speed and pull of material averages?

The only level based restriction is level 17 for enchanted mats otherwise it is all about skill level which maxes out at 30 not 20 and takes into account racial and freehold and armor and enchanted bonuses. I am not sure how many level 20 trained gatherers are actually out there, I only have the one and I am not aware of any others down at KP, I am sure there are a few more about but they would be rare smile
Edam
This is an opinion and judgement. I like to maximize and utilize the things that I have paid subscription and time and work for through the years. So, yeah, good enough is ok for some but not all. I can last longer and do more if my skills are higher than I can if they are lower. That is also a preference, but a true fact as well.

The way support work is it averages supported and trained "trainer level" and rounds up. Effectively by level 16 support you are not losing much even if you do have hitpoints at 20 and power at 40 and all your saves at 10.

I mean I suppose for some people the fact they only have 2250 hitpoints instead of 2262.5 or 320 unbuffed reflex instead of 324 in a level 16 settlement will be annoying - but in terms of practical combat there is nothing major in it. There is always the option to attach those characters temporarily somewhere else if it really matters to you.
Bob
Support is another one of those things that serves so many design goals and is hooked into so many other systems that removing it entirely could have some pretty big consequences. Adding in half-support and allowing characters to pay a little extra coin to train past their support level made it a lot more forgiving. Those changes also significantly delayed the point at which new characters really need to join a settlement, since they can train a bit into T2 at any non-restrictive player settlement and the support for those initial ranks is rounded in their favor. That's something we probably need to make clearer to new players so they don't feel pressured too quickly.

Those are really just balance changes though, not a fundamental rethinking of the entire system and its place in the game design. We'd like to go further at some point and provide other ways to get support, likely far less efficient ways so that getting support through a shared settlement is vastly preferred. Doing so does go against some of the core assumptions of the game design, so it will require serious thought, and some careful code work as well.
Schedim
I have a long list of stuff I think needs to be redone, but as I’m not a MMO player I’m pretty sure they are quite irrelevant to the goal of expanding the player base. But a wipe and rebranding seems to be the only solution to me. Calling this Pathfinder was a grave mistake from the beginning, it attarcted people, yes, but it turned them off instantly when logging on and not finding any Pathfinder anywhere. Stupid, shortsighted… I can rant about it forever, I understand the choice from the marketing point of view, buuut… ahem, well….

There is still plenty that needs to be fixed before a relaunch, and the current crew just can’t do it all, it is just inhumane to expect it.

I really have lost my hope and heart for this, but will still subscribe to see it to the bitter end, because it can’t run like this forever… That Pazio have continued to support this pipe dream is really amazing and I’m always going to be grateful for.
Schedim: Peddler and dealer in stuff easily transported, restless wandering the land of the River. Trying to find out how to reawaken the cult of Hanspur. To realise this ambition I created the company named Rats of Hanspur.
You can reach me on: pfo.schedim@gmail.com
 
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