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PVP Shenanigans with feedback

Caldeathe Baequiannia
Edit: wasted breath
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Dazyk of Phaeros
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Seriously, you people need to take a deep breath.

Dazyk
Many groups of us have been testing PVP for weeks, without any use of your ganking techniques.
Urban Dictionary
Ganking is the process in which a group of characters gang up on one or more players that do not have a chance to defend themselves, Or when one high level player does the same action to a player way below his or her own level (reference).
There has been some play style that may-or-may-not have been borderline over-the-edge for what is needed to test the system, but certainly should not be referred to as ganking by anyone. Keep your personalities in check until the rest of the world can stay out of your way. The rhetoric needs a time-out. On both sides.

I wouldn't use a term if I did not know the definition. Several of these 'testings' WERE multiple people attacking others who really had no hope of defending themselves AND who were not informed of their roles in this 'testing'.

Finally, I do, several times a minute, take deep breaths, but thank you for reminding us. I will now get off your lawn.
Dazyk Half-Elven, Elder of the Frozen Fingers, the shock- troops of Phaeros. If you are a fighter, cleric, or rogue, and enjoy battle, be it PVP or PVE, we are the company for you! We welcome role-players, casual gamers, and hardcore players alike.

Find your hidden strength, join the Frozen Fingers today!
Dazyk's PFO Resources Folder
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Ganking: The use of superior force or numbers in order to shift the risk factor in combat into your favor.

Focus Fire: A form of ganking in that it takes all of attacks of one party and focuses them at one target. Unit size on both sides does not have to be imbalanced, however the effect of one party using focus fire versus the other not using this tactic will make it appear as so. Attrition rate on one side will create the numerical imbalance.

Zerg: A form of ganking, using superior numbers but with inferior training or equipment to overwhelm a superior opponent that is at a numerical disadvantage.

These are all legitimate tactics and none have ever been punishable as a violation of EULA or other restrictions of player behavior.

The idea that Chaotic Neutral / Evil Bandits would use fair tactics is absurdly naive. As a matter of fact, I would expect that all roaming parties will use them, regardless of role or alignment.

To call the use of these tactics as griefing is also absurd. One of the pillars of PFO is "Dominance", and that will not always be achieved through fair play or even matches. On the contrary, I fully expect all parties to seek weaknesses in their enemies and exploit them.
Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
Dazyk of Phaeros
Yes, the point is: your people tried to pass off their banditry as 'testing'. Why don't you just call it like it is? Don't pretend. And then don't get so bent out of shape when word of your banditry finds its way to other players and they refuse to do business with you. You guys are big boys. Lie in the bed you make.

When feuds, factions, and WOT make it in to the game we can talk about all the other issues regarding fairness for people who want only to PVP or to be bandits. That is not the sole intent of this game.
Dazyk Half-Elven, Elder of the Frozen Fingers, the shock- troops of Phaeros. If you are a fighter, cleric, or rogue, and enjoy battle, be it PVP or PVE, we are the company for you! We welcome role-players, casual gamers, and hardcore players alike.

Find your hidden strength, join the Frozen Fingers today!
Dazyk's PFO Resources Folder
TheGoodfellow
It wasn't even so much the fact that he didn't trade with him. yeah it sucked and could have been handled better, but that isn't the issue. The issue is the name calling and accusation that is not what happened. That is like someone robbing a liquor store but being branded a murderer. That is the main issue with the OP 6 pages ago. This thread has ping ponged all over the place and not all of it is relevant to the OP.

I just want to say this and hopefully we all can move on. The term griefer, as others have said, needs to be used only when it fits. Randomly being killed in the wild, or by overwhelming force, is not griefing. While the actual specifics vary, there is a general definition that is accepted and understood by most of the community: REPEATED killing in a SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME. (outside of war or tower defense/offence which is understood as part of the deal) If you are killed by 1 or more people in the wild, that is not griefing. If they kill you several times, say 4 or 5 in quick succession, then I would agree it could be considered griefing.

The point is, don't call names and place labels on those undeserving of the titles. Trust me when I say there are times we want to show people what it means to be griefed. Sometimes I wish there was a way to share our TS discussions and in game video's of these PVP roams we do. We are practicing our own tactics and intended "real game" actions now to get a feel for them once EE and beyond get here. We are also testing the system to ensure things are functioning as we expect and believe they should. Weather others know they are a part of our testing doesn't matter. At least not to us. My advice to anyone we come across when doing so is to just accept it happened, understand it will happen come EE, and move on. We have a reputation on these and Paizo's forums and are already gaining one in game. I expect people will just learn to run at the site of our names. Then again, there is a chance that our character names might differ from our forum and current alpha character names since I, for one, wish to use a more appropriate name come EE. (The intent was for "The Goodfellow" to be my known assassin's name)

Sorry for the ramble, I tend to do that for those who actually read my walls I post once in a while. Just try to take away from this the idea of minding the use and application of titles and name-calling. The less it is done, the more constructive posts will be between people. Name calling tends to provoke emotional posts and that just keeps going.
TheGoodfellow
@Dazyk We weren't trying to pass of our actions as anything other than what it was, PVPing. Banditry actually involves more robbing and less murder so we can't really practice banditry by killing everyone we come across. But I am splitting hairs.

Please refer to the first line. I can assure you, once the proper mechanics are in place, such as SAD, you will see less killing and more robbing from UNC members. Not saying we won't kill any more, but that it won't be as it is now, where we go on "murder sprees" to test various PVP systems and rep loss and builds and such.
Dazyk of Phaeros
For the record, I never used the term griefing. Read back to my posts and you will see that. I used the term ganking, which is different. And we all know that throwing definitions around doesn't mean anything, anyway. Everyone has a different definition for griefing, and for ganking.

My whole point, and I will reiterate, was that people were QQing because they suddenly had a bad reputation in the game because… well because of something that actually gives you a bad Reputation in the game.

Not really sure what they actually expected…
Dazyk Half-Elven, Elder of the Frozen Fingers, the shock- troops of Phaeros. If you are a fighter, cleric, or rogue, and enjoy battle, be it PVP or PVE, we are the company for you! We welcome role-players, casual gamers, and hardcore players alike.

Find your hidden strength, join the Frozen Fingers today!
Dazyk's PFO Resources Folder
Dazyk of Phaeros
TheGoodfellow
It wasn't even so much the fact that he didn't trade with him. yeah it sucked and could have been handled better, but that isn't the issue. The issue is the name calling and accusation that is not what happened. That is like someone robbing a liquor store but being branded a murderer…. Just try to take away from this the idea of minding the use and application of titles and name-calling. The less it is done, the more constructive posts will be between people. Name calling tends to provoke emotional posts and that just keeps going.

Again, I do apologize… but I really have no sympathy. You guys are the ones who want to be bandits and robbers and assassins. You can't handle a little name-calling? You might not be cut out for the role, then.

Griefer, ganker, zerger, whatever-er… You do something bad to someone (ie. killing them outside of a war, or other good reason) and you will be labelled. (I hear that this happens in real life, too. Weird.)
Dazyk Half-Elven, Elder of the Frozen Fingers, the shock- troops of Phaeros. If you are a fighter, cleric, or rogue, and enjoy battle, be it PVP or PVE, we are the company for you! We welcome role-players, casual gamers, and hardcore players alike.

Find your hidden strength, join the Frozen Fingers today!
Dazyk's PFO Resources Folder
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
As Goodfellow said, we really can't "test" banditry out, none of the systems to do that are in place. All that we can do is approximate the conditions that we will have in EE and that includes going on PvP roams searching for prey.

What was that line from Jurasic Park? "the T-Rex doesn't want to be fed, it wants to hunt". We don't want to have prearranged PvP, we want it to be the result of locating targets in the wild and taking them down. If they are alone (solo) that is their own fault, the Devs have said often that you will die often.

As to the issue of us suffering our own reputation (with a small r), all I have to say is "Fine, we will now live up to it". If an occurance such as what sparked this back and forth happens again, the perpetrator will be placed on our KOS list. As I have said many times, we follow the River Freedoms (our CN/ CE interpretation of them at least) and oath breakers will die.
Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
UthgarBlackbeard
Dazyk
Many groups of us have been testing PVP for weeks, without any use of your ganking techniques. In all honesty, I believe we are likely getting much more accurate and meaningful feedback about the game systems from our testing than you and your cronies are from your jolly-killings weakly veiled as 'testing'.

Yeah cause the only way to test is in a controlled environment. Am I right?
 
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