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Alpha 9.1_Axe & Shield

Giorgio
Robert Hodgson wrote:
"I would argue that this could mean the shield feats (or the 1,2,3 axe feats) need some beefing up, if using an axe with a shield feels ineffectual. That's a balance issue however, not a bug. "
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@Stephen

As of Alpha 9.1 a fighter with a one handed battleaxe can no longer equip a shield without losing access to all his "heavy" secondary attacks, and only being able to equip (currently broken) shield attacks in slots 4-6. As for as I can tell, the shield is not adding to the characters defense or resistance, and its feats are underwhelming.

Under the proposed system Forgeholm's heavy armor melee dwarven fighters with one handed battleaxe and shield are losing out to a fighter with a one handed battle axe and an "empty" hand, in order to slot (1-3) primary/light and slot (4-6) secondary/heavy Axe feats/attacks.

Is it intended for a one handed Battleaxe weapon fighter to be forced to use an empty hand to get all six attacks? Why not use a two handed Battleaxe instead? What balance issue am I missing here? Not only does it "feel" wrong for dwarves to fight with one handed battle axe and no shield/empty hand, there is no tow handed battle axe to make up for it.

Is the design intent is for:
- One handed battleaxe and shield = primary axe attacks (slots 1-3) & secondary shield attack (slots 4-6)
- One handed battleaxe no shield = primary and secondary axe attacks (slots 1-3 & 4-6)
- Two Handed Battleaxe = heavy axe attacks (slots 1-3 & 4-6 + better keywords)?

As an alternative:
-On handed battleaxe and shield = primary axe attacks (slots 1-3) & secondary shield attack (slots 4-6) at reduced shield defense/increased shield offense or;
-On handed battleaxe and shield = primary axe attacks (slots 1-3) & secondary axe attacks (slots 4-6) at increased shield defense/no shield offense.
-Two handed battleaxe = heavy axe attacks (slots 1-3 & 4-6 + better keywords)?

The dwarves of Forgeholm are very interested in learning more, as it affects us directly…. smile
First Elder Durin Steelforge; Leader of Forgeholm; Founder of Steelforge Engineering Company

PM Giorgo on Paizo Forums
PM Admin George on Commonwealth of the Free Highlands
UthgarBlackbeard
Agreed, I would like to know more about this.

As of right now, From my math on it. May as well just use a great sword and get that higher DPS instead of using anything else. The only two feats I see worth using on a shield are (forget names atm)shield charge, and shield interupt. The problem is, then my axe damage is pathetic. Since the axe interupt is only 25% chance, I would rather have the shield option.

I would suggest:
1) Equip any feat in slots 1-3
2) or Equip main hand feats in any slot no matter what is in the off hand
3) and Shield provides defense as per the table top game

Seriously, there is no reason the shield does not provide a defense bonus. Its just silly that it does not.
Gillmere
Does it work the same way with a long sword?
Yrme
Gillmere
Does it work the same way with a long sword?

Yes, all dual fighting styles work the same way. Sword + shield, axe + shield, sword + dagger, etc. You can only use the main hand weapon's primary attacks. You use the off-hand weapon (or shields) for secondary/exploit attacks. So it's limiting in some ways.
At some point, crowdforging suggestions seem to be like fan fiction. Some good, some bad, some repetitious and predictable. But maybe there are some gems out there.
Gillmere
If I am reading this correctly, you do not get high damage attacks if you use a shield and shield does not give you a defense bonus?
Yrme
Shield does not give you a *passive* defensive bonus just for putting it on your paper doll.

Shield does have *active* defensive bonuses. Shield Block has very short attack time (0.6 sec) and cooldown (0.3 sec) and applies the Parry state to the character - that is +20 to your reflex defenses. The parry state is supposed to last for 1 round (6 seconds) but in my experience it often drops faster, while the +20 reflex from a dodge feat seems to last the full 6 seconds (so yes, I've bug-reported it). That shield block *can* be reapplied if you're fighting an enemy that is applying negatives to your reflex defenses.

For comparison, the axe attack "Cut" applies a Dodging state (also +20 to reflex defense, but doesn't seem to stack with Parry). Cut has a 1.7 sec attack time and 1.4 sec cool down. It costs more stamina than a shield block, but it does to some damage; about 3/4 the damage of a basic axe strike.
At some point, crowdforging suggestions seem to be like fan fiction. Some good, some bad, some repetitious and predictable. But maybe there are some gems out there.
Dazyk of Phaeros
The reason the shield block drops faster is likely because of the EPower vs. EProtection. If you are matching more keywords on your Armour/Armour Feat than you are on your Shield/Shield Block Feat, you are basically protecting yourself from the status effect (dodge, in this case).
Dazyk Half-Elven, Elder of the Frozen Fingers, the shock- troops of Phaeros. If you are a fighter, cleric, or rogue, and enjoy battle, be it PVP or PVE, we are the company for you! We welcome role-players, casual gamers, and hardcore players alike.

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Dazyk of Phaeros
Edit: duplicate post, sorry.
Dazyk Half-Elven, Elder of the Frozen Fingers, the shock- troops of Phaeros. If you are a fighter, cleric, or rogue, and enjoy battle, be it PVP or PVE, we are the company for you! We welcome role-players, casual gamers, and hardcore players alike.

Find your hidden strength, join the Frozen Fingers today!
Dazyk's PFO Resources Folder
Yrme
Dazyk
The reason the shield block drops faster is likely because of the EPower vs. EProtection. If you are matching more keywords on your Armour/Armour Feat than you are on your Shield/Shield Block Feat, you are basically protecting yourself from the status effect (dodge, in this case).

Sorry, I don't understand.

I have a 1000xp alt. I have bought shield block, which should give a 6 minute Parry state, and the axe attack feat Cut, which should give a 6 minute Dodge state. The shield block doesn't last the full 6 seconds; the cut attack does seem to apply the dodge effect for 6 seconds uniformly. I'm using all +0 mob drop gear. Are you saying that the character's armor reduces the shield Parry in a way it doesn't reduce the axe attack's Dodge?
At some point, crowdforging suggestions seem to be like fan fiction. Some good, some bad, some repetitious and predictable. But maybe there are some gems out there.
Stephen Cheney
Urman
The parry state is supposed to last for 1 round (6 seconds) but in my experience it often drops faster
Parrying turns into Riposting when you get hit by a melee attack. (And Defending turns into Replying, which are the lesser versions.) Riposting gives an equivalent melee attack bonus for your next swing (and if you're attacking quickly, I'm not sure that the UI will update the defense chevrons to change them to attack chevrons before the buff is expended). Essentially, put up Parrying, get hit for less damage, then immediately hit your target for more damage.

Dodging state (also +20 to reflex defense, but doesn't seem to stack with Parry)
Both are, indeed, on the same channel so won't stack. But you can trigger Defending/Parrying to get the quick switch to Replying/Riposting. Note that Dodging (and its lesser version, Avoiding) also doubles its benefit while you have Opportunity.
 
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