Cookies Disclaimer

I agree Our site saves small pieces of text information (cookies) on your device in order to authenticate logins, deliver better content and provide statistical analysis. You can adjust your browser settings to prevent our site from using cookies, but doing so will prevent some aspects of the site from functioning properly.

Bows (and arrows?).

Notta
Bows are one of the weapons of choice in Alpha, especially for newer players. I have been experimenting with different builds and I have learned a lot. I think I know which way I want to go but the build will be highly dependent on bow (the short bow). The rules on encumbrance have already impacted my build. Running around with a longbow and a short bow adds enough encumbrance to me to be significant.

Is there any information on how the bow mechanics will work when implemented? Will this be at the start of EE or later. Will arrows for longbows and short bows be interchangeable? How many arrows in a quiver? What slot on your doll will the quiver occupy? Will an arrow last just one shot or will it have a percentage chance of being recoverable?

There will be a big difference between now (infinite weightless arrows)and when the mechanics of bows, arrows and quivers are fully deployed. It would be nice to have some clues now so I can adjust my build.
Stephen Cheney
Ammo is extremely unlikely to get in before EE, but is hopefully going to come in soon after EE starts.

Arrows are currently planned to be the same for Shortbows and Longbows (and charges are the same for Wands, Staves, and Foci). I do worry that this will create a further incentive towards using the slower weapons and attacks so you can consume fewer arrows over time, so universal ammo isn't set in stone.

Ammo containers start pretty small for the introductory T1 items (I don't have my notes for it right now, but either 10 or 20) and increase as you make better ones. IIRC, they're set to top out at around 50 in T3. Those numbers are pretty negotiable based on player use; the important metric is going from feeling the pinch pretty much every fight up to almost never feeling the pinch in a typical fight.

The ammo container occupies your offhand slot (essentially, ranged weapons become "one handed" but you have to have an ammo container in the off hand for them to work).

There are not really any plans to make the ammo recoverable because it would be a complicated interaction with the loot system, though that might be possible as a long term adjustment. We do plan to have creatures sometimes drop small amounts of +0 basic ammo for their tier (TBD on the frequency and size of these drops).
Valkenr
Back when the game was announced, we were told that everything was going to have some sort of ammunition(arrows, bolts, whetstone, etc. ), that was going to be the central focus of the economy, and the primary equipment that characters are constantly re-stocking. Other equipment was meant to be used for a longer time, and not feature as heavily on the markets.

Are we still going to see something like this? I hate to think that ammo is being used as a balancing factor, because there are plenty of games out there that have ranged/melee balance without needing ammo.
Dazyk of Phaeros
I was going to ask the same thing: I have noticed that the melee weapons in the game have the same 0/20 indicator when you hover over them on the attack bar. I had assumed that this was an ammo/charge indicator (because it does not sync up with durability).
Dazyk Half-Elven, Elder of the Frozen Fingers, the shock- troops of Phaeros. If you are a fighter, cleric, or rogue, and enjoy battle, be it PVP or PVE, we are the company for you! We welcome role-players, casual gamers, and hardcore players alike.

Find your hidden strength, join the Frozen Fingers today!
Dazyk's PFO Resources Folder
Jazzlvraz
Valkenr Darkaal
…whetstone…

I also thought I remembered whetstones coming up in a mention of consumables, but now I'm not finding any of the "big three" who've used the term; it does feel the natural analogue to others' consumables. Perhaps with more hunting….
Stephen Cheney
Valkenr Darkaal
Back when the game was announced, we were told that everything was going to have some sort of ammunition(arrows, bolts, whetstone, etc. ), that was going to be the central focus of the economy, and the primary equipment that characters are constantly re-stocking. Other equipment was meant to be used for a longer time, and not feature as heavily on the markets.

Are we still going to see something like this? I hate to think that ammo is being used as a balancing factor, because there are plenty of games out there that have ranged/melee balance without needing ammo.
Long term consumables are still on the road map. The goal is to scale from a small bonus to a significant bonus from T1 to T3, so it shouldn't be too much of a change if we get them in while most of the players are still in the range where they're a minor bonus.

As currently envisioned, they're a little complex to implement because the defensive ones can't just pile on more flat resistance (because that would make it easier to get to the point that you can totally ignore attacks from lower level players).

Ammo is unrelated to long term consumables. Ammo is the charge for ranged attacks that aren't significantly less impressive than melee attacks. In a lot of other games, melee is just drastically better than ranged as far as damage output, because if the choice was between two infinite damage hoses that were both the same, you'd of course pick the one that has range. We decided to add a cost to using it instead.

The 0/20 on the action bar weapon mouseover is just a bug in trying to display durability. I'm pretty sure it's a known issue. (Well, I know about it, I'm less sure whether it's in the bug database smile .)
Dazyk of Phaeros
Good to know! Thanks Stephen!
Dazyk Half-Elven, Elder of the Frozen Fingers, the shock- troops of Phaeros. If you are a fighter, cleric, or rogue, and enjoy battle, be it PVP or PVE, we are the company for you! We welcome role-players, casual gamers, and hardcore players alike.

Find your hidden strength, join the Frozen Fingers today!
Dazyk's PFO Resources Folder
Valkenr
Stephen Cheney
Ammo is unrelated to long term consumables. Ammo is the charge for ranged attacks that aren't significantly less impressive than melee attacks. In a lot of other games, melee is just drastically better than ranged as far as damage output, because if the choice was between two infinite damage hoses that were both the same, you'd of course pick the one that has range. We decided to add a cost to using it instead.

Or it comes down to gap closers and player skill. Games I've played gave ranged lots of damage output, but it was usually spread out, not as much spiking. Melee had the ability to close the gap and spike the hell out of ranged attackers.

Right now the game has melee better than ranged, there are 25 melee attacks with a DF over 2.5, but only 2 ranged attacks. At using the DF/s in Nihimon's spreadsheet, out of the 69 attacks above 1.0 DF, 13 of them are ranged, with the balance on the high end heavily towards melee. If ammo is added, I think that damage numbers should return to where they were in alpha 4-5. I think most of them have had their DF reduced by at least 1.0.

I really think the current combat system needs to be fixed before moving forward with ammo. Charge attacks need to be fixed, the cc system needs to be fully functional, and rooting needs to go back to how it was: only on powerful hard hitting ranged attacks. Then see if ranged is still unbalanced, I don't think it will be. Kiting with half-draw isn't that great when I can jump to you and hit you with a stun, then pile on a slow.
Valkenr
Valkenr Darkaal
Stephen Cheney
Ammo is unrelated to long term consumables. Ammo is the charge for ranged attacks that aren't significantly less impressive than melee attacks. In a lot of other games, melee is just drastically better than ranged as far as damage output, because if the choice was between two infinite damage hoses that were both the same, you'd of course pick the one that has range. We decided to add a cost to using it instead.

Or it comes down to gap closers and player skill. Games I've played gave ranged superior damage output, but it was usually spread out, not as much spiking. Melee had the ability to close the gap and spike the hell out of ranged attackers.

Right now the game has melee better than ranged, there are 25 melee attacks with a DF over 2.5, but only 2 ranged attacks. At using the DF/s in Nihimon's spreadsheet, out of the 69 attacks above 1.0 DF, 13 of them are ranged, with the balance on the high end heavily towards melee. If ammo is added, I think that damage numbers should return to where they were in alpha 4-5. I think most of them have had their DF reduced by at least 1.0.

I really think the current combat system needs to be fixed before moving forward with ammo. Charge attacks need to be fixed, the cc system needs to be fully functional, and rooting needs to go back to how it was: only on powerful hard hitting ranged attacks. Then see if ranged is still unbalanced, I don't think it will be. Kiting with half-draw isn't that great when I can jump to you and hit you with a stun, then pile on a slow.
KarlBob
I certainly hope that the Universal Ranged Attack Root (URAR) goes away when ammo is introduced. The URAR was meant to be a temporary balancing factor between melee and ranged attacks. I suspect that limited capacity quivers and charge stones will be a very effective permanent balancing factor, and the URAR won't be needed any more.
 
You must be logged into an enrolled account to post