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All posts created by Azure_Zero

Azure_Zero
Seems the servers are refusing to boot again, today.
Azure_Zero
Bob, this morning (Aug 21st 2020), the servers seem to be flaky with disconnects.
Azure_Zero
It works mostly with the game's PVP mechanics, and mostly a non-issue since there doesn't tend to be any unwanted and freely done PVP, if there is any PVP it is done with a fued.
Azure_Zero
Welcome WildLaw

I hope you enjoy the game.
Azure_Zero
Bob
NightmareSr
However it looks like some of the best uses would be for Settlements in the mountains or highlands that can't get woodland or cropland hexes.

Interesting analysis, and yes, it's those players with limited choices who'd most likely find the Trading Outposts tempting. I'd like to make them a little more tempting overall, but need to be careful exactly how far I push that since they're already tempting in at least some cases.

Actually the Best hexes for the Trading outpost is Forest (Primary : Wood, Sec : Game),
Followed by: Mountain (Pri : Ore, tertiary : Game), then Highlands and Plains (Secondary and Tertiary being Ore and Herds).

If I were to put a Mining Outpost in a Plains hex or a stone cutting in a Forest hex at +0, I would be getting 10 of that resource,
so I believe we should raise the percentages until we are a bit over ten in a forest hex (best result), and a quick reasonable starting percentage was found at 37.5% which would yield 12 trade goods in a forest hex, which is somewhere between Secondary and Tertiary results with one bulk type outposts at +0.
Azure_Zero
Bob
Azure_Zero
That 6 food and 6 trade tell me that it was not a pure forest hex (it and it's core 6 being the same), as I use Hunting in pure forest hexes and get 7,7.
Whoops, you're absolutely right, I missed my target hex by 1. The one I was using had slightly lower Game/Wood ratings. Switching to the correct hex, the Hunting Outpost +0 does indeed produce 7 Trade Goods (plus 7 Food) while the Trading Outpost produces 8 Trade Goods (5 for Wood, 3 for Game). The spread increases to 22 vs. 26 at +5. Again, not a huge increase, and rarely worth the substantial trade-off in Food production, but still hits that minimum bar of being better at Trade Good production in any similar hex.

If the trading outpost only produces barely a bit more then a Hunting outpost in trade goods, and the hunting produces nearly double the amount of total bulk, it's still not worth it.
If a single trading outpost can't make more then 10 bulk resource total units in it's best hex (forest or mountain), it's just not worth it,
as example a Inn (in forest) with 2 Hunting outposts would not only feed itself (up to +2), but also generate all the extra needed trade goods you'd want.
while a Inn holding in the same hex with 2 Trading outposts would need to be fed food and only make two or a bit more in trade goods each day.

Too put it simply, if outposts that can only work on at best a secondary resource rating in a hex that generates one bulk resource (i.e trade goods) is less then 2/3's a best production of 15 at +0, (this means a min of 10 should be reached)
it just is not worth it to put it up when I can get more bulk in total using another outpost.
Azure_Zero
Bob
Azure_Zero
Sorry, Bob but I disagree with Trading outpost being better trade good producers as they currently are,
As the OP clearly states they at best a match to a hunting outpost in trade good production and the Hunting also generates the same amount of food on top of it.

I think if the percentages were raised to at least about 37.5% it would start to match a ranching outpost in trade good production in a plains hex, which is currently the best outpost and hex type combo for trade good production.

It's not a big difference, but I went on Zog and placed a Hunting Outpost +0 and a Trading Outpost +0 on a very standard Woodlands hex (400 Stone, 800 Wood, 600 Game) to test it out. The Hunting Outpost (the only other option that would produce Trade Goods in that hex) said it would produce 6 Trade Goods (plus 6 Food), while the Trading Outpost said it would produce a total of 7 Trade Goods (broken into 4 for Wood and 3 for Game). That lined up pretty well with the spreadsheet math I did, though I had to fudge a little to account for rounding issues.

Basically, I agree that Trading Outposts aren't the best Trade Goods producers, and are in fact guaranteed to be relatively inefficient at it. You're almost always better off using a different outpost for Trade Goods production, but in a different hex. It's just that in over half of the claimable hexes, they're the best choice if you want to focus on producing Trade Goods in that specific hex, which might be needed if someone can't line up a better hex. That's not a very high bar to reach, but they'd be clearly broken if they didn't meet it at least some of the time. That would then define the bare minimum fix, and would be pretty easy to define. I'd go ahead and make that now, knowing that any balanced change has to go at least that far, with plans to adjust further when I had time to run more numbers. Since they meet that low bar, there's no clear bare minimum fix to make. That doesn't mean they're balanced, it just means I shouldn't do anything until I have time to run all the numbers.

That 6 food and 6 trade tell me that it was not a pure forest hex (it and it's core 6 being the same), as I use Hunting in pure forest hexes and get 7,7.
Azure_Zero
Bob
Agreed, the math guarantees they'll always be pretty poor at generating Trading Goods, but even with the exclusivity pairs they're still usually better than the other options at generating Trading Goods in any given hex. Of course, those hexes are almost definitely better suited to generate other bulk resources instead, and it may be pretty rare to find yourself with a mix of hexes making those tradeoffs worthwhile. Still possible though, which is enough to make picking a "balanced" point require far more math. Some quick calculations convince me I can find the right numbers, and they wouldn't be a huge change or hard to implement, but running the math to convince myself the new numbers are in the right range is going to take some work.

Sorry, Bob but I disagree with Trading outpost being better trade good producers as they currently are,
As the OP clearly states they at best a match to a hunting outpost in trade good production and the Hunting also generates the same amount of food on top of it.

I think if the percentages were raised to at least about 37.5% it would start to match a ranching outpost in trade good production in a plains hex, which is currently the best outpost and hex type combo for trade good production.
Azure_Zero
I'll agree that Trading Outposts have flexibility in hexes they can be placed in,
but the math don't lie if the numbers for trading outposts are still 25%/25%/25%/25%.

The main problem is the bulk rating exclusivity pairs that are in the Trading outpost, Wood/Ore and Game/Herd
so no one can ever even get 75% of the hexes bulk resource rating and can only get 50% and even then the rating will be poor since one of them will be lower then the other.

So options 1 and 2 might need to be looked at to balance it.
Azure_Zero
So Bob want can one get for; a Ruby Crypt souvenir, and a Marbled Quartz?