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All posts created by Bob

After reading all your feedback and reviewing the system a bit more, I'm going to leave this as is. However, the support impacts on these feats aren't quite as intuitive or obvious as the impacts on more typical feats, so I've filed a bug to look into ways to make this clearer when we have a chance.
That's a tricky one. Master Strike requires Trainer Level 20 even to teach rank 1, so technically any Support Level below 20 offers no support for that feat. I assume you're being reduced to rank 2. There are some other feats in the exact same boat, like Force Mastery, and others that have the issue to a lesser degree because they can't start being trained until very high levels.

When saying that Support Level 20 is essentially the same as Support Level 20, I'd noted that Power was an exception because it gets 2 ranks of support per level. I hadn't noticed these exceptions, which were originally intended to basically be unusable without Support Level 20.

We could be more lenient on the Support Calculation in these cases, or reduce the required Trainer Levels for them, but it's clear the original design meant for these to be among the biggest rewards for leveling a settlement all the way to the top. It's also kind of nice that this affects feats you can't learn until you're pretty topped out, so you likely have other feats available to use instead during times you lack full support.
Will we be able to set multiple tiers for training taxes ie one rate for settlement members, one rate for allies and one rate for everyone else or set one rate for T1 training and then other rates for T2 and T3?

You can set different taxes for settlement members, allies, and unaffiliated persons. You also get to set different rates for sales, training, crafting and mules. You can't set things differently by tier, with the partial exception that mule taxes are essentially X copper coins per tier/upgrade, with X allowing anything from 0-100.
Will there be a posted upkeep cost for the settlement (with the keep I assume) and each structure in the toolbox similar to the holdings?

There sure will. If you're a settlement leader, all the structures (including the keep) will have upkeep info on the Structure Management Window that comes up when you click on the toolbox. For the keep, there's a button to bring up Settlement Management. From there, you can select Manage Upkeep to to see your Current Structure Upkeep, Target Settlement Level Upkeep, Additional Upkeep to Attain Target, and Total Upkeep Cost. This is also where you would go to manually pay your upkeep if your settlement is shut down, in which case the amounts listed will also be prorated.
Cole took care of the last essential technical issue today, which was to make sure that NPCs that start out on various platforms or other raised surfaces at the dynamic structures don't start out on the ground instead. To take advantage of that, I'm making a pass through the structures to put various NPCs in more interesting places and mark them so that they won't be dropped on the ground when they initially spawn, which I should finish up tomorrow or Wednesday. Fortunately, that's also the kind of work we can do while beginning to test on our internal servers, so we're kicking that process off over the next couple days as well. At this point, I'm still hopeful that we can get through all our internal server testing in a week or so, but as always that will depend on exactly what we find as we're testing.

I've also delivered structures kits to 11 of the 34 settlements at this point. Several more have made their choices and we're just in the process of setting up a delivery time. Emails have been sent to all the official owners at their official addresses at this point, so if you haven't heard from me, contact me at and we'll sort things out.

Can you tell us what % of training fees will go to "sink hole" so we can know what part goes to a settlement? smile

The plan is that training taxes will go on top of the standard costs already set for training. The standard cost, and the support surcharge, are sinks like they are now. The settlement can then set a percentage of that training cost to charge as added taxes, anywhere from 0% to 200%, all of which goes to the settlement. NPC settlements will also start charging taxes, which will be on the high side to give player settlements the opportunity to compete with them even for lower-level feats. I was thinking NPC taxes could be in the range of 25%, maybe even higher, to give player settlements lots of room to maneuver. The taxes at NPC settlements would also be sinks.
Here are the upkeep numbers for each Target Settlement Level:

  • 9: 5 of each bulk good, 100 copper coins
  • 10: 8 of each bulk good, 160 copper coins
  • 11: 15 of each bulk good, 270 copper coins
  • 12: 31 of each bulk good, 430 copper coins
  • 13: 58 of each bulk good, 630 copper coins
  • 14: 102 of each bulk good, 860 copper coins
  • 15: 171 of each bulk good, 1110 copper coins
  • 16: 278 of each bulk good, 1370 copper coins
  • 17: 440 of each bulk good, 1630 copper coins
  • 18: 675 of each bulk good, 1880 copper coins
  • 19: 1000 of each bulk good, 2110 copper coins
  • 20: 1400 of each bulk good, 2310 copper coins

Cougar's math for a Keep +0 and University +0 in a level 20 settlement was largely correct technique-wise, with the exception that we recently switched to averaging the bulk resources used by the structures before subtracting them from the settlement level upkeep. I just added that to the original outposts, and we make the calculations fairly clear on the new Upkeep Management window available at the Keep toolbox. Here's a run through the same calculations with these new numbers:

Keep +0: Bulk Food 1, Bulk Ore 1, Bulk Stone 2, Bulk Wood 1, Copper Coin 50
University +0: Bulk Food 1, Bulk Ore 1, Bulk Stone 2, Trade Goods 1, Copper Coin 50

For structures alone, upkeep comes to Bulk Food 2, Bulk Ore 2, Bulk Stone 4, Bulk Wood 1, Trade Goods 1, Copper Coin 100.

That's a total of 10 bulk goods, so the average is 2 for each of the 5 bulk goods. Always round the average down if needed.

As a sidenote, that's not even enough bulk goods to cover settlement level 9 with the new numbers, though it is enough coin. As a result, another 3 of each bulk good would be required just to keep the settlement from shutting down, since you can't choose to run lower than settlement level 9.

For settlement level 20, the upkeep is 1400 of each bulk good and 2310 copper coin.

First, subtract 2 (the structure bulk average) from 1400 to get 1398, then divide 1398 by 2 to get 699 of each bulk good. Similarly, subtract 100 from 2310 to get 2210, then divide 2210 by 2 to get 1105 copper coin. Always round the halved result up if needed.

Finally, add 699 to each of the bulk goods and 1105 to the copper coin that you're already paying for the structures. That gives you the final cost of Bulk Food 701 (2 + 699), Bulk Ore 701 (2 + 699), Bulk Stone 703 (4 + 699), Bulk Wood 700 (1 + 699), Trade Goods 700 (1 + 699), Copper Coin 1205 (100 + 1105).
I added a Settlements tab to the wiki with all the upkeep, pvp window and facility rating information. I'll also be posting more info to the existing Structure/Settlement Upkeep thread, along with answers to any of the above questions.
So you think that Bulk costs will roughly be 2x what they are now. I doubt that you plan such for DI but what about coin upkeep? Will that be 2x what is listed in the wiki?/quote]

The Bulk/Coin/DI costs listed in the wiki for the individual structure upgrades should all be accurate now. I've got what I hope are final numbers for the settlement level upkeep, which are as you say roughly 2x the current numbers for settlement level upkeep (more than double at the low end, less than double at the high end). However, since you only pay half the difference between what you're already paying for structures and what you need to pay for your targeted settlement level, that essentially means that an empty settlement can get support bulk upkeep roughly similar to what's currently being paid.

For coin, if memory serves, I think it's around 1 SP per week for level 9, ramping up to around 24 SP per week for level 20. Again, you'd only pay half that if you skipped the structures and just paid for the support. I'm pretty sure those numbers are close, but don't quote me on them quite yet. I've left myself a reminder to post them on Monday morning when I get back into the office.
Agreed on all points, Tyncale, and we'd definitely like to bring this back at some point. Ideally, at that point we'd make it even more common to run into buildings going through various stages of construction/renovation, and try to find ways to make those stages more interesting, revealing, and perhaps even interactive (help/hinder/block). There are lots of possibilities, many of which aren't necessarily all that difficult to implement, we just need to be able to set aside enough time to do them right.