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All posts created by Bob

Bob
Decius
If I read the intention there correctly: If a person has Bank Permission and does not have Bank Prohibition, they can access their personal vault and (subject to company permission) their company's vaults in the settlement, and their personal vault (only) at any holding (subject to stricter limits determined by the company).

If they lack the Bank Permission or have the Bank Prohibition, they can withdraw (only) from their personal vault in the settlement, cannot access their company vaults in the settlement regardless of their company permissions, and cannot access vaults in holdings.

Is that correct-are personal vaults for allies becoming accessible at holdings, and company vaults for allies at settlements?

The Settlement Access settings work just like the Vault Permissions settings, they're just On or Off for each things. Every character fits under at least one group (basically, Unaffiliated means Not in Any Other List), so every character is either Permitted or Prohibited from using each thing.

I reworded the original post a little bit to be clearer about holdings vs. settlements. At settlements, everyone is gaining potential access to company vaults, on top of the access they already had to personal vaults. If the Settlement Access settings permit them to use the bank in that settlement, then their access to those vaults is limited only by their company vault permissions. If they're prohibited from using the bank in that settlement, then they're limited to at-best Withdrawal-Only access to those same vaults.

At holdings, currently only company members have access to both personal and company vaults. With EE 12, everyone else is gaining potential access to personal vaults, but only other settlement-mates and alliance-members are gaining potential access to company vaults there, if the Settlement Access settings permit them to do so. If the Settlement Access settings prohibit them from Bank access, then they can't open the vaults at that settlement's holdings at all.


Bob
Bringslite of Staalgard
Any chance to get mule "doors" in there or is that a part of "banks"?

We kind of figured that mules aren't incredibly useful at a given location if you can't also access the vaults there, so we haven't bothered to mechanically block them for the moment. If being able to block them is more important than we'd initially thought, then we could either tie that access to the "bank" setting or add a separate "mule" setting. Might be able to get that in for EE 12, or possibly for EE 13 when we add mule doors to the holdings.
Bob
Dreggo
So what is the answer to that situation then? We seem to have a fair number of folks who play this game who while they claim to be PVP averse aren't at all afraid to engage in PVP through other means. That's fantastic. Makes the game interesting. However I think if the game mechanics allow you to gather or PVE in any hex on the map then you should be able to be ganked in any hex on the map.

We want players, particularly starting players, to be able to do some basic, central gameplay activities (e.g. killing monsters, gathering raw materials, crafting) on some parts of the map without worrying that random players will attack them. Then we want them to opt-in to slowly increasing PvP risk by looking for better loot and raw materials in more dangerous territory, or by joining companies at the risk of being feuded, but to always have the option of falling back to safer spaces and choices. In general, that means you're safe in NPC hexes, less safe in Wild hexes, and very unsafe in Monster hexes. Likewise, you're pretty safe if you just join an adventuring company that's unlikely to get feuded by anyone, and much less safe if you join a company in a settlement that regularly makes waves.

As for territory owners having the option of making their own hexes extremely safe, they can do so, but at the cost of making it much more difficult to run off those they might consider poachers. Likewise, you can lower the security in your hexes so that you can punish poachers at will, but at the cost of opening yourself up to attack.

And in the really valuable monster hexes, with high-level mobs and T3 gathering, there's no avoiding Low security.
Bob
EE 12 gives settlements the ability to control the access various groups of players have to that settlement's buildings and facilities. The UI for setting access levels is available from the Company Details tab of the Company Window by hitting Edit, then selecting Settlement Access from the pull-down menu on the Permissions Window that pops up.

Restrictions can be viewed and/or set for the following groups:

  • Members: Settlement members who are not blacklisted, defaults to full access and can't be edited.
  • Allies: Members of allied settlements who are not blacklisted, defaults to full access and can be edited.
  • Unaffiliated: All other players who are not blacklisted, defaults to full access and can be edited.
  • Blacklisted: Players who are blacklisted by name, company or settlement, defaults to no access and can be edited.

For each group, access can be granted or blocked for the following things:

  • Train: Allows or prevents the use trainers in the settlement or at settlement holdings.
  • Bank: Allows full use of both personal and company vaults at the settlement bank and at settlement holding vaults. If disabled, restricts players to only being able to withdraw from those same vaults at settlements and being unable to access any settlement holding vaults. All access to company vaults is also subject to any stricter company vault permissions.
  • Craft: Allows or prevents crafting and refining at settlement structures or settlement holdings.
  • Tavern/Inn: Allows or prevents the recovery of Power at settlement Taverns or Inns.
  • Auction: Allows or prevents buying or selling at settlement Auction Houses.

Update 1: Tried to distinguish the differences between holding and settlement vault access a bit more clearly.
Update 2: Holdings will now allow personal and company vault access by anyone who has the appropriate settlement access permissions, but will still block any access when a character is restricted, where at the settlement they'll still be able to withdraw things.
Bob
Duffy Swiftshadow
Yea I can see that line of thought. I was reasoning that the free feud aspect was balanced by tying it to static hexes and thus known locations and the ability to remove that state via holding warfare. I was hoping it would create a powerful political tool since we lack anything useful now and just take the rep hits. Odds are we'll just go no security and be diligent about who we pick fights with or we'll abuse the ally mechanic when we get the details of that. I guess my complaint is that Full Security and No Security don't actually seem balanced against one another as far as incidental conflict goes.

One of the important points here is that security levels were really created to make some parts of the map extremely safe for players who hadn't yet opted-in for PvP, and then let players ease themselves into increasing levels of risk by adventuring out to Wild hexes and then Monster hexes. Given the existence of those security levels, it was pretty easy to then give territory owners the ability to set them as well.

If we'd come at this the other direction, focusing on the kinds of settings that territory owners would want, we'd have designed very different systems. Hopefully we'll be able to look at doing exactly that sometime in the future. There may also be some minor tweaks we can make to the security levels along the way that would help with that kind of thing. That wasn't an initial goal for this feature, but it's always good to leverage a new or existing feature for additional possibilities.
Bob
Duffy Swiftshadow
It's also possible I forgetting something about how flagging works, but if I start attacking someone in a no security hex and they run without attacking back can I kill them in a high security hex or near guards?

I believe they'd effectively be running to safety in that case, since they wouldn't have been flagged as attackers.
Bob
Dreggo
I think my problem with having player controlled security is that it once again creates a situation where if I have a person or small group misbehaving in my territory I have to respond against a whole company or settlement rather than just those individuals. If I have someone poaching or strip mining I either have to catch them in a lo-sec area (potentially very difficult or impossible) to mete out a little street justice or I have go all in and feud\blacklist their entire company\settlement?
Maybe there's something I'm not getting here and someone less xenophobic can set me straight smile

The security levels don't really help you in that kind of situation, and feuding does have to target the entire company, but you can blacklist individuals. Admittedly, blacklisting just allows you to block those individuals from using your facilities, not from gathering or monster killing on lands you consider yours, but it is at least a punishment you can target at the individual.
Bob
Decius
Will holding guards engage flagged unallied characters on sight in all three security levels?

We haven't changed anything about who the guards will or won't attack.
Bob
Hobson Fiffledown
Will there still be attacker flagging in low security hexes?
What if I want to come to your high security hex and strip-mine in front of you?
Maybe we just want to base our settlement siege two hexes away along a protected supply line.
Seems "high security" hexes come with a big security trade off. Just a misnomer?

Flagging should still happen in low security hexes, it just doesn't make as much difference unless you move to another hex while still flagged.

The High Security name is really about how secure an individual in the hex feels about being attacked by random passersby, not about how much it contributes to the security of the hex's owners (or owners of nearby hexes). If someone wants to stop you from using a High Security hex, they either need to claim the hex and lower its security level (if possible), or feud you.
Bob
Duffy Swiftshadow
Yea there is some corner case oddness. I was assuming this feature was going to be based on the Blacklist/Ally stuff to determine whether to apply the Rep penalty, I didn't think they would go full on PvP restriction.

We were generally trying to avoid turning blacklists into anything resembling a free, long-lasting feud.