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All posts created by Flari-Merchant

@ Anyone

If I attack someone, how long does my flag last whether I am in High, Med, or Low Security?

Could it be turned up?
Then there is the fact that it is a choice. A Choice with some possible costs/tradeoffs that already exist in any case.
With all of the possible ways to retaliate for strip mining such as Feuding, Blacklisting, reciprocal striping, and on maybe exploits will be no more than rare corner cases.

Soon, if I want to "claim" a T3 hex as Dominion Territory, I can insta attack and not suffer rep loss. Soon, if I set my security level to high, players will know they can safely dig materials in my lands. Maybe they will sell some to me.

Whatever choices that I make will have some potentially bad repercussions for some benefits, but I can dial down my setting once a week if needed.
Paddy Fitzpatrick

Well, IMO I hardly think the PvP mechanical in this game are remotely close to ready for primetime, though I think some of the new changes will hopefully address some of the gaps between what the intents are vs. how the game actually plays.

I think another thing that has been mentioned is how PvP ties into other systems. Most of your ability to PvP is going to be dependent on getting achievements through PvE, crafting or having someone gather and craft gear, and eventually support which is dependent on holdings and bulk.

Are those activities fun and engaging enough to keep both PvE and PvP folks in?

Well, PvE for me is a resounding no. There are sandbox games I like with decent PvE, this has a ways to go before it gets to that point. Crafting well, that is debatable. I don't like the crafting system in PFO but others do. Support, well, sadly maintaining support requires doing even more of the least fun activity in this game right now which is hauling bulk. With the population as a ghost town there is no risk (which more open pvp and actual banditry mechanics would bring btw) so there is not much to do besides a very VERY long and slow walk.

So that is the fourth item I would add, how well it integrates with other systems. As I said before once the systems work better with each other then I think we will see what kind of game this could be.

Oh I completely agree that PfO needs better "stuff" in many, many categories. Also that whatever PVP system a game has, it isn't THE COMPLETE ANSWER. Nothing that I am writing here was/is intended to drive PVP enthusiasts away.

Giving some more options to non PVP players might help a little bit on that end of the whole yardstick. You know, push the measure up a few more inches into the anti PVP but acceptable range…
Duffy Swiftshadow
Hobson Fiffledown
So, say me and my (currently not feuded) merry band of n'ere-do-wells want to go ransack a T3 hex somewhere. We can travel safely along roads, npc hexes, and any High security hexes to get there, hop into the T3 hex (sometimes directly) to strip mine, boss kill, or PvP, and then hop right out to relative safety? Am I understanding that correctly?

Assuming you are not still flagged when you bail to the NPC High Security hex then yes you can leave in safety. If you are flagged it sounds like you need to wait for that to run out to be safe in NPC hexes.
Can someone chasing you and hitting occasionally keep you flagged?
If so, then it is all just about same as before, sans the penalties for starting a ruckus outside of Feuds. IMO anyway.

What I mean is that such persons usually get away if there is no PVP involved already anyway. Not that the changes are bad. So far I am a fan of them. smile
Bravo! A great step and much more than I expected for a first step! There will still be plenty of opportunity in monster hexes. There will still be those that choose to leave the security lower than high(I assume for their own freedoms).
Best of all maybe? The area that bandits have to roam looking for "customers" is less than "The Whole Map". Players that want to gather in peace will have that freedom, in SOME places. Feuds are still an option for a few days of raiding anyone.

Thank You for the details Bob! smile
Respectfully, today, in PFO this is exactly what the game is. When I appear in the world, if I step 30m away from the guards, I can immediately be killed and fully looted. FFA PVP. Anywhere in the world that I'm not within 30m of a guard, this is true. FFA PVP. It's a basic design goal that has been met.

^^^This is what a large part of the MMO pie seeking a fantasy sandbox see and believe.^^^ And well, honestly, right now it is TRUE. You do not see it happening right now because the pop is very low. We have a great community, but even when we pretty much ALL banded together to "punish" outbreaks of plain old random PVP(you know when and who) we were still just a small population that was a great community.

Add 10,000 new players. The community will be completely different.

Edit: I should add that personally, I am all for random PVP. I am not campaigning for myself here. There is an added… "flavor" to a game that has some random PVP. I Likes My Risks while I seeks My Rewards.
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Bringslite of Staalgard
I'm amused that some folks think the problem is with PvP. I can only name one profitable sandbox MMO, and that's Eve Online.

Does anyone want to list the profitable sandbox MMOs that I'm missing?
I feel like the problem INCLUDES PVP systems. Or rather the PVP systems are part of the problem… Though I had not considered SWG and had not played it.

I disagree. It depends on several things:

1) How well the combat in PvP is implemented
2) Setting expectations on what kind of PvP should players expect
3) Having the mechanics line up with those expectations

For example, a faction vs faction type PvP game has clear expectations. You fight alongside yours, you kill all of the other ones, and ya have good mechanics to make the fights fun and fair. Any PvP game that can do these three things will be good to go.

One criticism I have of certain posts in the thread arguing PvP in games is a problem in of itself is that they have mostly been strawman arguments. They have been based on stereotypes of both PvPers and non PvPers alike (mainly all PvPers are toxic wolves and all non PvPers are victims and sheep). The arguments have also been made based on one specific type of PvP system (basically the hardcore full loot gank fest free for all) while ignoring the variety of others that exist. These over generalizations are not helpful. I will also say, coming back to expectations, that if the expectations of PvP are clearly communicated and the mechanics are implemented to make then a reality, then frankly players should know what to expect going in. I don't always like what happens to me and I have definitely got salty about things at times and that's understandable, but I know what I am getting into when I do something in this or any other sandbox.

You can say that. Where is your successful Fantasy Sandbox Game? Yes, all sorts of things are factors in the success of games. Quite a complex mix, I am sure.
The mechanics of PVP, the set of the expectations, and finished mechanics(as far as PVP goes) did not help much in this game or any other, as far as I can see. Meaning: That stuff doesn't help INTEREST, bring in, and keep many PVP leery players.

PVP, itself, is not the problem.

The twin factors of not being able to control Random PVP and the Expectation That Players Should(if they do not like it) control RPK with their own characters and game time are the problems. The first is a serious turn off when looking for a Fantasy Sandbox for many players. The second is a VERY UNREALISTIC expectation that game devs have always figured was both doable(by players) and "easy" to implement.

One thing that you are right about(IMO) Paddy, is that this game has remarkably low or NO griefing right now. Well that is because it is a complete Ghost Town as far as MMOs go.
So would you guys claim that "success" for hard core PVP games goes to those that cater fully to PVP enthusiasts, with minor population exceptions, and that limited player servers are also part of that?

Not really what I was talking about, but they do refute my claims that almost ALL are struggling. Albion Online isn't technically out yet. I have no idea about Rust. That one seems like a jazzed up FPS to me…
I'm amused that some folks think the problem is with PvP. I can only name one profitable sandbox MMO, and that's Eve Online.

Does anyone want to list the profitable sandbox MMOs that I'm missing?
I feel like the problem INCLUDES PVP systems. Or rather the PVP systems are part of the problem… Though I had not considered SWG and had not played it.
Well, depending on how far or how much GW went with it, it could very well be a type of unique "feature" for their niche market that they are pursuing. Staying within reason and not getting so "niche" that you "niche" yourself totally out of ANY market is important lol, but having a few things that are "good things" which others don't have… Good Stuff.