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|Flari-Merchant 01.19.2017 18:19|
There are many great ideas throughout this thread. We all seem to have similar goals:
1. Short Range-Increase the fun of the day to day play so that we stay active and keep trudging along.
2. Long range-Get the game to a state that attracts and keeps players.
Not all of us have the same ideas about what will make those two goals real. That is ok as long as we get to the places that we want to get to.
GW, you have two commodities here that you are offering and that you want players to pay for. Really only one but you can't sell it without the second commodity in acceptable shape. The first is xp. That is what we(the players) pay for at the very most basic level. In order for it to sell well or as well as it can, you need your second commodity to be acceptable and attractive. You need a game framework that is very fun, varied, always changing or affected by players, and full of players who are seeking the play experiences that make them willing to buy the xp. It is just simply how it works best. You need to provide a place that is fun to be in and use that xp that we are willing to buy.
We all realize that you are stuck in a very difficult position. Without income or investment, you do not have the manpower to quickly improve the space that you have on offer. The space that we are supposed to use the xp we buy in fun ways that keep us interested, active and attracts new players steadily. Unless you get a large investment injection or a mega influx of subscribers, you are going to have to do things the hard way… Little by little. That is assuming that you are committed and want to have Pathfinder Online be a success. All indications are that you do, just as much as your fans.
In The Long Term: Do you have any kind of coherent alternate plan to improve the play space in the event that investment does not come along? It is unadvisable in the extreme to not have such a plan. Even if it is something that must be accomplished in small steps, we need to see progress. Lisa has communicated that she in not so keen on holding out on working on things while waiting for magical investors.
Lisa StevensI am probably making more out of this than there is, but I really believe that it is essential to keep this game alive at this point. A plan of small steps that adds small features which improve EVERY player's chances to play in your world and have fun!
For the long term, it is imperative some things be improved(yes incrementally in small moves).
1. How Influence and Feuding works and what it is for.
2. Gathering and Crafting.
4. Reputation system tweeks.
In The Short Term: Here are some small steps that I think you could accomplish, one at a time. The main sections(numbered) are not given in any particular order. Edit: Many or most of these things have been suggested by other players before this. Most are all smallish things and most I think would improve everyday play in some way and could be done one at a time.
1. Influence and Feuding
*Give us a 3rd use for influence
–Allow us to bank influence to be feud proof for no more than 2 days per week.
–Allow us to spend influence chunks to speed crafting on single items or set queues further than the 24hr limit.
*If a company does not have at least one holding of it's own, it can't start feuds.
*Set a reasonable limit on how long a company can "chain-feud" another.
*RAIDING as an alternative to feuding
*Take out some of the MANY Rez shrines. There are too many.
2. Gathering and Crafting
*Proto Gushers. The higher your gather rank, the better the chance to hit one. Now I want to lvl past 14!
*T1 thru T3 Mule TEAMS that are craftable. Two mules that are parallel as far as look and movement but now you can carry 2X the weight. OR just mule recipes that are called Strong Mule.You already have alternates called "armored"
*A new resource(Extremely RARE) from essence nodes… Arcane Filaments(or whatever) that will be needed for enchanting items AND for threading gear.
*New and extremely rare recipes that offer alternative gear stats for same tier alternative materials. Allow swapping Silvered Iron Blanks for Steel blanks in a suit of armor for an appropriate stat swap. Maybe Negative energy resist or something. <–example
*Bulk Resources need to be added as mats to all building recipes. Give Bulk more uses and increase it's value to us.
*Craftable and destructible resurrection shrines that are placed near imminent combat areas. Just a type of holding for simplicity, but always vulnerable to capture and removal.
*Whacky Weekend World Boss Challenge. Weekly random World Boss placement. Takes MANY(more than 6) players to beat. Always placed in some Broken Lands Hex.
*Look into LoS and solid object mechanics. There may be easier solutions nowadays.
*Alternate some high level loots for "treasure Maps" that have to be chased down. Sometimes dangerous places.
4. Reputation System Tweaks And PVP Loot
*No Rep penalties for PVP in any monster hexes.
*Decrease Reputation recovery speed.
*Gear Threading and/or some sort of "escrow"(loot for killing them) that the player deposits allowing for Rep Free PVP Status BUT all parties have to participate to be Rep penalty free to each other.
|Flari-Merchant 01.19.2017 01:15|
TyncaleDecent answer. Thank you, Sir.
|Flari-Merchant 01.19.2017 00:56|
Not that I am much in favor of time being put into this feature right now but we should keep in mind that we have not seen a revised edition since we have given these few days of feedback. We have no idea what exactly we will see come of it.
You are probably right that there are very few players that would come back with nothing much having been changed except their settlement under threat of being taken. It would probably be a last straw thing. That is an interesting question though isn't it? On one hand you have people that are still subbed but will not play much until there is positive news of change along with those that are not subbed but would again if things take off. On the other hand you have people that pay and play and are relatively active. Should the "properties" of the dormant or non playing players be protected or invulnerable from the active live account players? Why? How is that in any way reasonable?
|Flari-Merchant 01.18.2017 22:21|
And again… what is there to lose by trying to stimulate the Demand side of the equation?
EdamIf you really think that needing gear more often because it breaks sooner will lessen demand for gear, I really can't help you. You are basing your arguments on how you personally think you would react to gear with less than 20 durability, how you assume others would react, and how often your own group goes through gear.
A set of T2 +3 gear takes what? about 3 days to craft? Your tailors are fulltime crafting and can't keep up with the demand? I doubt that. I'll bet that your crafters are tied up crafting T3 gear. Considering that takes almost 10 times the craft time, I don't think it applies to the debate. Certainly not if your crafters are busy making T3 while your group mostly uses T2.
Your assumptions are also wrong about who asks for messing with the economy. We are pretty busy escalation killers. Even so, for most of us(myself not included) it is very rare for anyone to die an average of one time per escalation. If you are burning through T2 gear tso fast that your crafters can't keep up, as I wrote above, be honest. It is because they are queued up crafting T3.
With the craft materials involved and the time involved, I do not think it would be so awful to lay durability out something like T1=5 T2=10 and T3=20. That helps account for the extra time and materials cost. New players can only die 5 times and they need new gear? Oh no! T1+ crafters now have some reason to craft T1 gear! Please do not say that it is too hard for new players to get coin to buy new gear. That is rubbish.
A SERVER viable economy is not a CLOSED economy. One group that stays busy and supplies itself really isn't a great measure of a successful game wide economy. It isn't all about crafting only. No one likes to gather raw materials and sell them because A. It is too time consuming for the pay off and B. They do not need coin for anything anyway.
You really believe that reducing coin drop overall will put players in danger of not being able to afford training costs? Ahh, c'mon! LOL Seriously? Maybe if you have 10 accounts with active alts and only one character brings home coin. Is that a realistic way to look at how much coin should be dropping? Maybe if your alt characters could craft and sell things, they could pay for their own training?
Of all my points, the need to nerf the amount of coin dropping is the weakest. I will give you that. It's value will always economically adjust itself, given time. Except when there is no reason to spend it.
Do you argumentative types really think that this(what we have now) is how the economic flow was supposed to be? Even though we have a small population, should we not see an intended economic system at work but just on a smaller scale? Is there some better way that you can think of to get things moving than characters needing things more often than they do now?
|Flari-Merchant 01.18.2017 19:35|
Paddy FitzpatrickPaddy, you are right. I also feel that there should be something to capture for all the work of winning a siege. They would seem like pointless endeavors, except to be an asshole, otherwise. No reason to want the spot back because it is an empty parking lot. Anywhere would do fine at that point. This is a part of the revealed mechanic that has to go away.Bringslite of StaalgardEdam
|Flari-Merchant 01.18.2017 19:31|
EdamThanks for the feedback Edam. The point of less coin is that coin then has more value. That does not really make any difference though if the people do not need to buy anything with it. They also have to NEED coin to function at full capacity in the game. I am all for coin sinks, but I think that they would work best as trade offs for small advantages at the settlement or large group level than for individuals.Bringslite of Staalgard
Right away, or after stockpiles are run down a bit, halving the durability of gear would double how much gear needs to be crafted. That is without any increase in PVP or PVE activity at all. Sorry but I do not subscribe to statements or beliefs like "people will just become more cautious. No one will want to take agro." because it is not in human nature to change individual behaviors on mass scale like that. No one can predict what people will do, "en masse", when it comes down to subtle behaviors. Without NEED caused by scarcity there really can't be a realistic economy. If I need iron and it is far from me, maybe I can trade some of my coal for it. However, if there is just as much iron around in small bits to satisfy my meager needs… I have no reason to want to trade some of my coal. Everything I need is close at hand. If gear wears out faster then I can make more gear for a reason…it is WANTED/NEEDED. I can use the profits to get the things my characters or alts need which I can't craft or find on my own. Now I have an economy.
The problem here is that The Sacred Game Loop is broken or at very least is not functioning as it was intended.
|Flari-Merchant 01.18.2017 18:01|
Duffy SwiftshadowOptions of what to do day-to-day? How about gathering/refining/crafting for profit? How about buy low, sell high trader paradise? Materials that HAVE TO BE MOVED because they only exist far from where you craft? How about robbing those guys? Guarding against those robbers? How about my gear wears out faster so I have to replace it and how will I do that? I have to find a way to earn coin?Bringslite of Staalgard
Certainly drastic changes like I propose will not cause immediate results, good or bad. Once all of these stockpiles are depleted though, there will be reasons to do MANY things other than escalation grinding. As long as there is too much of EVERYTHING and it is easy to get, nothing will happen…
|Flari-Merchant 01.18.2017 16:53|
Duffy SwiftshadowI am pretty much in step with you on this Duffy. Not sure if your outlook from a few week or month ago has now changed, but if not, there is one big difference. Getting things to be more interesting for everyday play, helping the economy improve(actually exist…, whatever else can be done to help with those things… well I agree that it is a tangle of the first order.Bringslite of Staalgard
Where we differ is it seems that you want(or wanted) to do basically nothing that messes with the status quo. There is no real surety that messing with the status quo will make the needed difference but I am in the camp that shouts "What can it really hurt?" We are all VERY BORED. Most of us are simply waiting for xp build up to buy end game level skills. (<–Which in a game without content or lacking content, player or Dev at fault matters little, is a fatal xp system flaw… I am for:
1. lessening coin drops drastically
2. lessening durability of gear drastically
3. greater difference where types of resources can be found, perhaps more by region than they are now
4. increasing material rewards for PVP, possibly by threading or some other simple, not yet conceived mechanic
The reasons for this are self explanatory, I feel anyway. By increasing the likelihood of conflict and enhancing the scarcity of resources(from coin to materials) you might just stimulate some sort of economic interaction. With too much coin, too little gear wear and tear, too much item durability, too easy access to "enough materials for me", and too many idle crafters nothing will budge.
These are all things that GW can make happen fairly easy. Value changes.
It isn't you that has to be convinced of this though, is it?
Edited to bold, hoping GW will read this.
|Flari-Merchant 01.18.2017 16:25|
The response that you are likely to get from that comment is that developed, busy, built up settlements would be the very most difficult to take, by design…
The way things are right now, without new or returning bodies in real numbers, I do not think that any single group could manage to take a defended settlement, but we have not seen the actual numbers and costs yet.
|Flari-Merchant 01.18.2017 13:50|
What are the GOOD things that could come out of these siege mechanics that we have seen so far?
1. Without a system in place to take out a settlement, you can't even begin to figure out if it is too hard or too easy, too expensive or too cheap to wreck a settlement compared to the costs and effort to build one. White board equations and theory are great but nothing is a better test than actual on-the-ground testing and feedback.
2. Bulk Resources finally become more important and have value simply by having a secondary purpose or use(defense points). We desperately need Bulk Resources to have both meaning and value. We need a reason to trade for them and reasons to bring them home from the Holdings.
3. Settlement war mechanics are finally rounded out with the final ultimate mechanic even though, like all others, it will need balancing and polishing.
4. Long standing grudges, ghost town settlements(taken and left empty with no holdings or buildings and a single character in charge) could be redressed, and the threat of mutual destruction could all add up to more interesting politics. They sound like they will be expensive and more than likely require alliances, especially considering that all groups are very short on soldiers at this time.
5. The game is static and stagnant as is. This is a mechanic, that if used occasionally< will help with that.
These are some positive things that I see could come from siege mechanics right now. I can't judge whether they would all pan out as positive things or not, so these are just speculation. Listing these does not mean that I am in favor of or believe that it is a good idea in general right now, or that I would not rather GW work on some other glaring issues, just that there are possibly some positive things that could result…
What if along with these siege mechanics came black/white lists for settlement facilities?
What if it caused some work on Alliance mechanics?
What if it proved needful to work on influence and feuding systems to get it right?
What if it actually sparked creative and more easy solutions to these issues just as siege mechanics suddenly have become "doable" and within GW's range?