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All posts created by Flari-Merchant

Flari-Merchant
Thanks Thorgrim. That is encouraging.
Flari-Merchant
Let me just clarify something here to cut through or hopefully get the issues focused and not distracted by details that are of little import to the whole idea. It isn't the exact specifics that matter. How ever the "Freemium" or "F2P" model works and at what levels isn't the important thing, as long as it works right. What exactly is for sale in the cash shop isn't the most important detail. Only that there are MANY more people trying and playing the game. Only that something that is consumable and that is desired by many players and does not devolve to a P2W item or items is available, via cash shop, to throw my money at….
Flari-Merchant
Edam
Bringslite of Oz
Edam
PLEX in EVE are purchased for cash and sold in game for ISK (EVE game gold). Once acquired in game they can be stored as an investment traded for premium cosmetic items or used to pay monthly subs.

PLEX in EVE are the opposite of free to play for new players. They are only affordable in game by established players with good income streams. In fact new players do the opposite buying PLEX for cash and selling them in game for game currency to fund their new character.
I have no idea how it works exactly in EVE which is why I wrote "kinda the same sort of thing". The basics do match well. You buy it from the cash shop. It can be used as a monthly sub. You can get it via trade INSIDE the game.

Certainly I would not believe that it would be simple and without difficulty to make enough in-game coin each month to be able to play in an xp earning fashion with little effort. Though if you think about it, as long as it all originates from dollars going to the game's operators, there is little reason for them to care how difficult or easy it is to get in-game.

PLEX cost almost double in cash terms than a normal sub.

EVE is actually better off if people sub with PLEX. Its a good model and longterm will work well here.

At the time i quit EVE with 5 year old characters it was a few hours per month in game to sub each account ( running PI past the lowsec gatecampers in a blockade runner up to highsec for sale and making up any shortfall doing burners) and people in faction war could do it even quicker. However unless a new player was very good at market speculation or scamming it would be pretty difficult to sub an account in EVE in your first 6 months to year even playing every night.

The issue in current PFO is noone has a need for large amounts of game gold so no one would spend real cash on the Goblinballs.
I believe that I do see what you mean here, Edam. For such a system to work, there have to be players that bring Goblin balls and cash shop items into the economy and they need a reason to want to do that. There also have to be players that WANT to acquire that stuff through in-game trading rather than buying them in the shop.
OR IS THAT REALLY TRUE? It seems to me that all that really matters is that players WANT what is available in the cash shop whether it is for themselves to use or to be used to make themselves wealthy In-game. Doesn't make much difference as long as it gets bought. The in-game (between players) economy will sort itself out on it's own.

This is partly why I have been nagging so much about the economy and that it would be nice if, for some reason, we all felt like we WANT coin and even that our characters NEED coin and that there were some damn drains of some type.
Flari-Merchant
Decius
How exactly would letting people play a different game on the same server without being a revenue source increase revenue, without first finishing PFO? Does anyone think that a significant number of FTP players would convert? Would any existing players be bigger revenue sources?
Good questions . How does such a Freemium model get jumpstarted at any time that an MMO switches to it? How about a F2P? MMOs do it, so I have to believe that it is done for a reason and that the action works out for some of them. Exposure to games that have switched to a F2P model do bring in players to try them and some of them do make the leap to premium, but I think in this case it would be a slow process to rely on that. Use the cash shop to provide things that are cosmetic/visually appealing, conveniences, yet can be lived with or without.

Common sense tells me that when the path forward is blocked, if I want to progress in that direction, I have to go a little bit sideways and around or find a way through the obstacle. Capital and an unfinished state are working together to hamper forward progress here. Doing nothing but "waiting/hoping" for a snow plow to come along is not working too well.
Flari-Merchant
Thx Paddy. Exactly what you seem concerned about is exactly what I addressed. New rules. Much like the old free trial but you CAN NOT be a member of a chartered Company unless you are earning xp through a Premium Subscription OR through the use of Goblin Balls.

GW has an equivalent level system for basing ALL on 1 through 20 even if there are only 6 or 3 or 10 real ranks in a skill. They do it already with the limits of NPC cities or when our settlements are not set at level 20 training.

So the real differences:
-Like the old free trial, except you can still play your characters but you are not gaining xp.
- If you can earn coin or something to trade, you could trade for Goblin Balls(that SOMEONE has purchased and wants to trade in-game for something else and essentially play free in the Premium fashion while the goblin ball lasts.
-Characters would only be able to train to rank 6 in NPC cities instead of rank 8 like they can now.
-You can't be a member of a Banner sworn Company unless you are earning xp through a Premium Sub or through use of Goblin Balls.
-If you are already above that level 6 mark and you drop your Sub or do not use goblin balls, you revert to rank 6 in all skills and are auto booted from any Banner(chartered, settlement member) Company that you belong to. Just as if you were kicked from your settlement. No membership = no support above rank 6.

Every single month of xp earned past what you get in the F2P allotment is a BOUGHT(from GW) month of xp.

So there is no using the accounts for Holding sprawl. That isn't an issue. Also, whatever is available in the cash shop has to be put there by the Game Designer/Owners. They control that P2W problem. It can only get that way if they want it that way. So many of us think that Game Designers are just dumb and do not know that some items in cash shops are bad for games and cause P2W cycles. I believe it is more along the lines of they know EXACTLY what they are doing but they want the added revenue.
Flari-Merchant
Edam
PLEX in EVE are purchased for cash and sold in game for ISK (EVE game gold). Once acquired in game they can be stored as an investment traded for premium cosmetic items or used to pay monthly subs.

PLEX in EVE are the opposite of free to play for new players. They are only affordable in game by established players with good income streams. In fact new players do the opposite buying PLEX for cash and selling them in game for game currency to fund their new character.
I have no idea how it works exactly in EVE which is why I wrote "kinda the same sort of thing". The basics do match well. You buy it from the cash shop. It can be used as a monthly sub. You can get it via trade INSIDE the game.

Certainly I would not believe that it would be simple and without difficulty to make enough in-game coin each month to be able to play in an xp earning fashion with little effort. Though if you think about it, as long as it all originates from dollars going to the game's operators, there is little reason for them to care how difficult or easy it is to get in-game.
Flari-Merchant
Not sure if it is still intended or not. Pretty sure that GW would not say one way or the other so long as NewCorp is still in the running to take over. It is a fact that from very early on there were plans for possibly going to some form of F2P, to attract the bodies that make a world seem alive, and that there would be "Goblin Balls" for sale in the cash shop. Goblin Balls being blocks of "xp earning" time that would be tradable in-game. Kinda the same sort of thing that plex is or whatever they have in EVE online and whatever it is called.

So part of this is nothing new or innovative thinking.

My thoughts here are concerned with 1: Getting out from under the stigma that this game is almost NOTHING like the Pathfinder RPG, BUT still being able to use the Pathfinder IP to advantage. 2. Getting people into the game to try it out and see if they like it and a good way to do that is to offer some F2P option, in a way that if you play right you might be able to earn playing for free in a fashion above T1. Yet something that is not going to unbalance the Company–>Holdings system like the free trial did. 3. Getting a nice source of revenue(possibly) for GW or whomever takes over in the wheelhouse.

All of the balancing of these things is beyond me. It might not have to be cash shop Ammunition if something else that would be a wanted item/s could be found. Really though, Freemium and cash shop items DO NOT HAVE TO END UP CAUSING P2W problems. That is pretty much in the hands of the people running the game. They can have those sources of revenue without adding the things to it that will wreck the game.

@ Paddy

My Brother, I am curious to read what about Freemium models(that are NOT abused or made P2W) would make you completely leave a game that you so obviously see great potential in and are clearly enthusiastic about, as we all see and are. Not counting "previously bad experiences" with previously played under Freemium models, what are your objections? I may be missing something.
Flari-Merchant
I believe that every role so far has the built in ability to use weapons/attacks that do not require ammunition, yet pretty much every one of them also can do more and better with attacks that consume ammo. That is why I picked that particular item for a cash shop money generator.

Without money coming into the coffers there can be no progress. Right now 1 of 3 things can happen. The game folds because investors are reluctant and there is too much shrinkage to stay alive, investors do not materialize yet somehow the game does stay alive but progress is abominably slow, or investors do step up and things get exciting again.

That last one seems to be the very most unlikely.
Flari-Merchant
nambol
Freemium + Cash Shop = cr@p game but licence to print money.

Not expecting anyone to get over their dislike of the more lucrative revenue models that companies are increasingly turning to. They do have to make money to keep the lights on and new features/expansions/races/classes/content coming down the pipeline. Also to profit so that it is worthwhile doing in the first place.
Flari-Merchant
Paddy Fitzpatrick
How bout just making it a one time purchase only or at least make it one until the game goes full release?

Even if you keep the sub model, just lower the sub itself. I dont like the Freemium idea as it runs a high risk of P2W if you put all the important stuff behind pay gates like Archeage did. However, $15 a month is what folks pay for WoW and I got other guild members who were looking in to this game but won't play it cause of that. They would essentially be paying WoW prices for an early beta or late alpha whose status is in limbo and I just can't in good faith advocate for that right now. If the game had funding and was moving along then I could possibly.

There is one major issue though. The XP system is tied to the sub, that ultimately os what the sub pays for. You would have to change the xp system.before you could change the revenue model.
When the account is not earning xp (subbed or using a goblin ball) the account can gain no xp and reverts to just below T2. Bannered Company membership is denied.
This could work because it prevents groups from using the Free part of the Freemium Model to artificially boost membership and continue hollow unrealistic holding sprawl.