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All posts created by Flari-Merchant

Did I do a booboo, luring you into a premature discussion on BofH? smile
It's certainly possible that we could hook bags of holding into a threading system. I guess I'd always thought of it more as a way to protect a small amount of your inventory by putting a few items in the bag, where threading protects a certain number of the items being worn, but they do certainly have some functional similarities.

Magical insurance could also be a good coin drain, but it's also true that we do want a certain amount of gear/item churn. Balancing the need for churn against the pain of loss is always the tricky bit.

Let's give the recent trend of this thread a break.

What you wrote above (bolded) makes me curious. I had always thought of Bag of Holding being an encumbrance limit increasing option. Like it is in the TT. Like, though it increased what limit you had to carry weight, it still didn't make anything not equipped (someday threaded) safe from possible looting.

Sounds like BofH is headed more for a role as a container for a few items and make them [INV] to loss. Is that the plan?

Edited: Previous post looked like a prosecutor's leading question and that wasn't the intent at all. smile
I agree with all of you in essence.

Balancing more casual PVP will not be easy, but there are zones (might as well be called zones) that put some checks on the different sorts of PVP playstyles.

Numbers of active players will surely make for more things happening and much less pressure on the few that do all the work. The game is supposed to be for more "playstyles" than are represented at this time. Definitely.

PVP needs much more attention on the "casual" or non political, territorial conquest side of things. There just are not the numbers yet. Even with numbers there are few incentives other than getting lucky and catching a loaded gatherer in a very "lucky" crossing of paths.

All of the above does seem to make sense. Let's not forget though that we are being forced to deal with end product mechanics for high populations via this Road Map, right now, through upkeep and maintenance of all settlements/Holdings (except probably Influence), as if we are a high pop server. We are dealing with all "end product" costs for Territory conflict (it's costs and rewards) as if we are a high pop server.

I am just hoping that some effort/energy can be put into the things that are fun for a high pop server, from a casual point of view, during this Road Map or at least before Paizo tries to put their neck out again in a major marketing effort. I want it to work out for them in as big a way as it can.

-PVP rewards give incentive to PVP
-No game that allows players to generate excessive coin or gives EASY access to all materials can EVER have a realistic and engaging economy
-This is a sandbox territory game. Many interested players will want to have a path to create their own, viable slice of that pie that allows reasonable level progression.
You are a Troll
Duffy Swiftshadow
From a PvP perspective the problem with raiding, holding, and siege systems carrying the weight of all "useful" (I use that a bit loosely as none of it is the least bit useful at achieving anything but dominance/extermination) PvP content is that those systems are really a disincentive to PvP, you really don't want to engage in those systems at all because they are inherently expensive and based around losing character power. The only reward is more risk, which is not really a reward at all.

Don't get me wrong, that high level territory game needs to be there and it needs to be a complex and costly endeavor, but it's a killing blow long long long after hostilities have started. Right now the only valid reason to PvP is to try and hurt opposing character power indirectly or if your super lucky you might catch some decent loot off of someone, but even finding someone to attempt some "banditry" is really unlikely. (Though the buff/hex border fix might actually make catching someone easier.) If you do it too much people start threatening your character power by attacking your group via the above systems, thus we run into the main problem: no personal level PvP systems really exist in the game yet and most of the conflict to date has been caused by people operating at that personal level.

Edit: Also the stand in the circle capture system removes most strategic possibilities and turns every fight into a pure numbers/equipment game which can quickly turn into purposefully wasting time even though you have no real chance of winning.

I tend to agree with the above, and with what Bringslite was musing about in the post before Bob's above. Seems like you have posted these same statements (or similar) before Duffy, and the powers that be just don't seem to be listening…?
I think that much of the issue is that with a small Dev team, things are just very much more difficult to do. They have to get "the best bang for the buck", so to speak. There have been lots of changes in this Road Map and I know players that have come back because they see improvements so don't get me wrong.

On the other hand, many of the things that have been suggested (by players) are adjustments with little complications (coding wise), as far as I can tell.

Game Economy: Every day that coin and materials are so easily acquired is another day helping build a Super Rich Elite Veteran Core of players. This will not help when/if the server population explodes and Paizo realizes that they HAVE TO Do Something about the ease of coin acquisition. That is just some tweaking of loot tables. That is some tweaking (admittedly work intensive) of where resources can be found. When things you want are far away in someone else's yard, we are very much encouraged to interact. However that plays out is what is Good In Gaming. Unless a great and fun game economy is not one of the goals for PfO?

Casual PVP: There is no treat for Joe Average to do PVP. Nothing kool drops from these corpses for Joe. Joe doesn't PVP. Joe doesn't cause gear churn at all. If Sam is wrecked to an unrecoverable level because he loses a few pieces of gear, Sam isn't playing with a friendly group and should stay out of PVP zones… Why else are the zones there? If increased PVP turns a few people off, watch how many come-try-stay because the "feeling of danger" is there and the PVP is fun and rewarding…

I bring these things up because I am hoping that they might fit into some of the "extra space" in the Road Map. If there are ToT's that show up and you want them to stay, you at least need a working economy and PVP that is at least as fun as PVE (which I call The Recipe/Expendable card collection Game).

Have to decide if it is fine for PfO to be a Private Paradise Server for a few hundred players or something profitable…
It's certainly possible that we could hook bags of holding into a threading system. I guess I'd always thought of it more as a way to protect a small amount of your inventory by putting a few items in the bag, where threading protects a certain number of the items being worn, but they do certainly have some functional similarities.

Magical insurance could also be a good coin drain, but it's also true that we do want a certain amount of gear/item churn. Balancing the need for churn against the pain of loss is always the tricky bit.

This isn't meant to be mean. It's meant to be food for thought. smile

You guys have to decide if you want hardcore, rewarding PVP or if you want softcore handholding PVP with minimal loss to the defeated. Right now the only incentive to PVP is political and Upper Echelon Territory PVP. Raiding is a good stab at the "non political" stuff but it actually IS POLITCALLY DANGEROUS and way too easy to limit any loot from it, so not that much of a change. Was that the vision? If it wasn't the vision then PVP needs to be rewarding at the player to player level…

I do feel like you have developed Territorial PVP to the point that it is almost foolish to go to war over the actions of one or a few individuals. That might eventually make small scale PVP less detrimental politically and so more common. Now please make it rewarding!

If the main PVP gear is going to be T3(Highly Unlikely) than the long craft times make gear loss, including how it happens, a more painful issue. Something that probably needs to be handled more with kid gloves, depending on how much PVP we are talking about… Though what you wear to battle is a choice that could lead to more economical decisions if gear loss is not handled "softly".

Of course "gear insurance" or "threading" or "Bag of Holding" shouldn't make all gear "locked to the soul", so to speak.

You say that you want gear churn, but we are almost 3 years in and are sitting in a stagnant, as far as PVP goes, server. You could lower gear durability. You could "unlock" gear so that some of it drops for getting killed. You could make resources much more localized so that trade and movement of materials is necessary and picks up along with fighting over them. You could add some casual PVP by having control points that offer lasting buffs to the controlling 6 man party (shrines or points of interest?). Just some ideas.

You could do all of these things but implement them one by one so the impact is less immediately severe. We can get used to them. This isn't exactly an RPG TT game. Players here can get used to losing sometimes and that includes gear and materials, but especially gear.

Of course there are players that will get angry when "something" is taken from them. There are also lots of players that both like challenges and also reward for casual PVP.

vvvThis is an RP stance.vvv ^^^This is what could be better for the overall game.^^^
There isn't any intention to make settlement wars more of a pain in the butt! Just that since it is largely GM run, it can make as much "realistic aspect sense" as you want to have to deal with. smile

Thank You for taking some of this into consideration.
The Attacker has some pretty tough obstacles already, what with the high influence cost and regular expense of holdings for Siege camps and supply lines. Still, I have some questions as actually declaring war can paralyze a defender for anything from 6 weeks and on indefinitely.

What happens to the Influence invested in the siege hexes if the Attacker is defeated?

Is there any penalty, for the attacker, if they declare war and fail to establish their full siege requirements? They have just "frozen" a player settlement for at least 6 weeks(level wise). Seems like a pretty powerful tool…

Is there or should there be a cost, above what is written now, to declare "war" on a settlement's existence and then fail? I mean more than not being able to do it again for one month?
You could compromise and take your snap shot of Bulk Stockpiles when the last hex has a siege setup but keep the Settlement Level lock(as written), couldn't you?

Otherwise doesn't this conflict with?:
Bringslite-Dominion Soldier
You decided to skip reinforcement of Bulk if the ring of the siege is broken? Even though an open approach is a typical way that sieged positions have a chance to get reinforced?

That's in there, though admittedly buried in a pretty long sentence and with some limits on what can be brought in:

  • Bulk resources can be deposited or withdrawn, but the remaining amount of bulk resources that need to be destroyed before the buildings start to take damage can only go up on days where the settlement is not surrounded by active siege equipment, and then only by 100 bulk resources per day per type of bulk resource for each neighboring hex that doesn’t have an active siege engine in it.

So the more you can break the surrounding ring, the more bulk resources you can bring in.
It's going to be one hell of a long post about final EE14 details, isn't it?
Great job Cole! This game is getting better every update. smile