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All posts created by Jokken

Jokken
I'm going to inject here. I've been playing a Crusader Cleric since launch. We've had four pages of discussion on progression balance for this class and no one has yet illustrated the differences in cleric types. As I see it, this is key to the debate.

We have 3 types of Cleric:

Evangelist: Wears Medium Armor (moderate physical and energy resist), May use a bow and raise Dex skills, but mostly focuses on damage dealing expendables and divine focus attacks with a variety of buff options.

Healer: Wears Medium Armor (moderate physical and energy resist), often equips two divine foci, using one for healing and buffs and the other for attacks.

Crusader: Wears Heavy Armor (strong physical resist, energy vulnerable), deals the majority of damage with a melee weapon and cleric expendables and raises Str skills along with Wis. Equips a divine focus in the second slot for healing, buffs, ranged attacks.

As I see it, Healer is single classed cleric. It requires Wisodom as a Primary stat and Constitution as a secondary required stat. Crusaders and Evangelists, however, are firmly dual classed build. Trust me when I tell you there is very little advantage to wearing heavy armor over medium. Focusing on divine focus attacks in a crusader build really doesn't make any sense. Folks who roll Crusader are looking for superior self healing, melee damage bonuses, and the utility granted from cleric expendables. Crusader requires Strength as a secondary stat. Evangelist requires Personality as a secondary stat. (as an aside I'd like to hear from anyone out there who is an Evangelist and multi classing as Wizard to use a focus and wizard implement)

However, I'm going to argue now that Crusaders actually have two primary stats instead of a primary and secondary. Why? Because more than the other two builds it's a multi class setup. Once you take your armor feat, domain, melee weapon, and focus to T2 you have to choose. Do I keep my cleric stuff at T2 and advance my weapon to T3, or do I advance my domain and focus to T3 and leave my weapon T2 for awhile. The eventual goal is to get both, but it requires raising two stats to 20.

The OP debates that this is an unfair burden on Crusaders. I say that a Crusader with a T3 focus, domain, and armor feat, but a T2 weapon is on par for character effectiveness with a Warrior who has a T3 melee weapon, fighter feature, and armor feat, but T2 training in a 2nd slot longbow. I would also say that a Cleric who has a T3 melee weapon, and T2 domain, armor feature, and focus is still much more effective than it's T2 counterpart.

Outside of stat balance, there's another reason Crusaders should pay a higher entry cost into T3. Sanctified attacks, while previously stated as lower powered than their fighter counterparts, often deal energy damage. This allows Crusaders to be the only build in the game that allows dealing high physical and energy damage on the same weapon without having to sack 3 sec for swapping slots. Yes there's holy smite, but overall far fewer offensive melee options on a focus as compared to a sanctified weapon.

TLsmileR Cleric stat gates are fine the way they are. If want to fast track a cleric to T3, play a Healer.
Go West for freedom and adventure! Join the free soil settlers of High Road. Be a positive and constructive force for freedom in the Bulwark Hills. www.coalroad.com/hrc
Jokken
For the record, I still support the longer crafting times. We're discussing raising the standard training level at High Road from 14 to 16. When we get our last two finished goods buildings crafted, active folks in the region are welcome to craft their finished goods there as we offer stations for all finished goods. Refine in Talonguard and craft in Highroad.
Go West for freedom and adventure! Join the free soil settlers of High Road. Be a positive and constructive force for freedom in the Bulwark Hills. www.coalroad.com/hrc
Jokken
Schedim
Well, then, could someone take a look at the collider of the Mining nodes and set it similar to the Forest nodes as flying Mining nodes are a bit to common…. But I have yet to se a levitating Forest or scrapheap node…

I think that is more a factor of the uneven terrain you often find mineral nodes and never find forest nodes.
Go West for freedom and adventure! Join the free soil settlers of High Road. Be a positive and constructive force for freedom in the Bulwark Hills. www.coalroad.com/hrc
Jokken
I list my full set of Armor stock in Talonguard every week. Sometimes things sell, but they rarely do. More often than not, I have a player in my organization say. "Hey, can I get you to make a suit of +3 Dwarven Steel Banded for me?" and I'm like sure. Go to the Auction House….smile
Go West for freedom and adventure! Join the free soil settlers of High Road. Be a positive and constructive force for freedom in the Bulwark Hills. www.coalroad.com/hrc
Jokken
Ravenlute
For your dislike of being nickled and dimed, your vision does just that. Only starting with one race, having to pay for others? Not only being expected to pay for xp but access to training on top of that? Serious overkill. Is this what you think Goblinworks would do or what you would do if you were in charge?

As mentioned in my post, I hate this type of model. But F2P is never really F2P unless it is also pay to win. So you can have a pricing model that breaks all the service items in the game to individually priced items and people buy the game piecemeal as they want to use it, you have a game that is truly f2p through grinding but sane folks have to buy services that increase the speed of xp accrual, item find etc, or you have an all in subscription model. I challenge you to find me a model that does not fit into one of those three categories.
Go West for freedom and adventure! Join the free soil settlers of High Road. Be a positive and constructive force for freedom in the Bulwark Hills. www.coalroad.com/hrc
Jokken
If I were to envision this game on a f2p model, I think it would look something like this:

Box Price: $5

What you get:
One character slot
Access to play one race, human
Access to all NPC settlement trainers to rank 3
1000 xp
A club
Add Ons:
1,000 xp: $0.45
15,000 xp: $5.25
30,000 xp: $8.00
72,000 xp; $15.00
A maximum of 2,400 xp may be applied to each character each calendar day.
Unlock a race of Choice: $5
Unlock Character Slot: $10 (xp must be applied separately)
Unlock ability to play character while not actively earning xp: $10
Unlock training at a building to rank 10 (applies to all settlements server wide): $2.50
Unlock training at a building to rank 20(applies to each local building only): $5
Name Change: $5
Haircut (appearance redesign): $5
Race Change: $10

With a system above you can play for very little and only buy what you need. If you buy all of the unlocks you pay much more than a $50 box price. Granting the ability to play a character while not earning xp would be key to a f2p model, I would think. As mentioned by others, a plethora of pay for cosmetic baubles would be well received. I also would not be apposed to pay for items that produce a very minor game advantage. Tokens that grant 4 hrs of +15 to a specific knowledge type, 10% bonus to influence gain, out of combat land speed, or reputation recovery would be good examples of this. The key here, is it has to be very minor. I am very much against any system that actively advocates paying to win.

That all said, I personally greatly dislike f2p. Call me a grognard, but I like a box price and subscription as long as I can see active development for my money. I hate being nickled and dimed. For a f2p model to appeal to me, offer me an option to just subscribe and get it all for less than buying it piecemeal.
Go West for freedom and adventure! Join the free soil settlers of High Road. Be a positive and constructive force for freedom in the Bulwark Hills. www.coalroad.com/hrc
Jokken
It's a hex by hex thing rather than any relationship to terrain type. Some hexes have lots of dowser nodes while others have very few.
Go West for freedom and adventure! Join the free soil settlers of High Road. Be a positive and constructive force for freedom in the Bulwark Hills. www.coalroad.com/hrc
Jokken
Quijenoth Starkiller
You'll be lucky if .0001% sub for a month if anyone. Opening it to steam will not have a lasting impact. yes you'll get a few people playing but how many will stay after 15 days? We all know the first 15 days in this game is dull and the controls handicap it for most.

IMO, for steam to work, they still need an investor FIRST. Someone to pay a much larger team to work hard on polish and the new player experience, plus getting the core mechanics in/finished.

I agree with you. If you put a $30 box price and then only offer 15 days your retention rate will be really bad. Why? Because this game takes about that long to actually wrap your head around. The key move here, as mentioned by Lisa previously, is to raise the box price to something like $40 and give 45 days with purchase. This does three things. First it gets a player fully acclimated into how the game works. Next, it allows enough time for a new player to make social connections with other new players and form a company or connect with an existing power block and integrate there. Last, it gives enough time for a focused player to train access to a T2 weapon and a T2 suit of armor allowing full access to content. The 15 day free trial was a horrible, horrible idea we can't take back, but we can put it behind us.

Throughout this thread the main opposition to getting this game up on steam has basically been: "Don't do it, because there is an investor coming and if you put the game on steam now it will get a ton of bad reviews and the investor won't invest in it." To those people waiting for an investor with a two million dollar check to come in and save this game, unsub now. Stop wasting your time. There is very strong possibility this game will never secure outside funding. It has been trying to do this very thing for three years unsuccessfully. Capitol investors are not knocking down the doors of the MMO industry to invest. In the past 5 years we've watched one AAA title after another tank. The MMO, in many ways, is a dying breed. Luckily this game has never tried to be a AAA title.

No, for this game to see fruition, I feel the only path is support from it's player base and slow developed growth through subscription revenue. Steam Early Access is a vehicle to drive this subscription revenue. Is it going to fix this game and make it a flashy, polished, AAA title next year. Absolutely not. Not even a little bit. What it will do is bring 3-5k players into the game to check it out for 45 days and get some steam achievements. Out of those 500-1000 will stay and make there home here. End result? The initial push allows Goblinworks some cushion money to shore up shaky finances and the residual 1000 subscriptions works out to enough money to hire a couple more devs to move the ball forward.

I think in all this discussion we've forgotten a key truism. This game is FUN. Rough, unpolished, and far from finished but this game is fun. It is more fun when we have a player population creating content on a daily basis. There could be zero development past EE 11 aside from bug fixes and UI polish and I'd still be playing, provided enough others stay active so that I can group, grind, build, and wage war. We are dangerously close to sinking below that threshold at this time. It's time to get new players in the door and show them what the fun is about.
Go West for freedom and adventure! Join the free soil settlers of High Road. Be a positive and constructive force for freedom in the Bulwark Hills. www.coalroad.com/hrc
Jokken
No one disagrees that the game needs a major polish overhaul on quality of life features such as the party mechanic, chat, and inventory management. I feel, however, that it needs an engaged and active player base more. If this game could get to a threshold where 3000 active players were logging on daily, we'd really have something here. Steam early access might be the vehicle to take us there. I say give it a $40 price tag and include 45 days with purchase. This gets casual players into T2 for a bit so they can see what the game is really like.
Go West for freedom and adventure! Join the free soil settlers of High Road. Be a positive and constructive force for freedom in the Bulwark Hills. www.coalroad.com/hrc
Jokken
Takasi
Anyone who is not a crafter or who will have their T3 adventuring skills for the gear listed above please contact us. We do not intend to put these items on the auction houses or conduct private sales for coin. We are looking for people capable of using this gear to join us in clearing escalations. They are rare artifacts rewarded to adventurers willing to answer our call.

Huzzah good sir! Life in the West is the life for me.smile
Go West for freedom and adventure! Join the free soil settlers of High Road. Be a positive and constructive force for freedom in the Bulwark Hills. www.coalroad.com/hrc