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All posts created by Seraph

Seraph
Jokken
Actually, Sanctified weapons are a skill specifically created for adventurers multi-classing as Fighter/Clerics. That is why they have pre-req's from both fighter and cleric trainers.

What do you mean? Sanctified attacks don't have any fighter-specific prereqs. Heavy/Light Melee Attack Bonus don't count, since Rogues and all future weapon classes need them as well. It would be quite possible for me the use the same attacks I have today without any fighter levels, I would just need to get the strength from crafting or something else.
Seraph
Cleric of Sarenrae
Brighthaven
Seraph
Exactly, Duffy. Change the gates to Wisdom for cleric attacks and Clerics won't build Strength and thus won't become expert Fighters. I don't use any fighter attacks right now anyway, particularly because my strength is about 13.5 and I can afford cleric attacks at level 5 but not fighter ones. This is already the right idea, we just need level 6 attacks (and T3 proficiency) to be discounted in the same fashion.

I don't want to be a fighter, I want to be a cleric, so as long as I stick with cleric things I should be able to do it with wisdom. The only reasons I have levels in fighter right now are (1) MoO: Suffer and (2) I needed some fighter feature feats to get my strength to 13 for level 5 sanctified attacks. And at some point I might ditch MoO: Suffer, at which point I'll be a fighter only for matching strength gates.
Seraph
Cleric of Sarenrae
Brighthaven
Seraph
Takasi
Nobody is entitled to a cleric having sanctified attacks. It is not a core feature of a "cleric" role.

I believe it is a core feature. Being a cleric means you pick a deity, train in that deity's domains, and get access to their attacks (which have domain requirements). It's as much of a core cleric feature as anything, it's just not required since you can use the focus (exclusively). You get all sorts of different clerics out there that are defined by their deity's weapon, like the whole Desna starslinger crowd. They're going to hit the same problem with Dexterity as I'm hitting with Strength.

Takasi
What the OP is asking for is to have both T3 weapons and a T3 focus using only one stat to boost. No other role gets to do that.

Sure they do. Wizards can use Int for wands and staffs. Rogues can use Dex for knives and bows. Strength covers a ton of weapons. The only thing a Cleric can do with Wisdom is a focus. A fighter can access all of its core features – everything with a fighter role level requirement – with strength or dex, and they only need to pick one. Same goes for wizards and rogues, with their respective attributes. Clerics are the only ones like this, and they're not "more powerful" or anything to justify it. Power level isn't an appropriate justification anyway, since XP is infinite and you don't want the eventual T3 cleric to be straight up more powerful than a T3 fighter.

The advancement simply isn't symmetrical for otherwise balanced classes. It's an extra cost with no payoff.
Seraph
Cleric of Sarenrae
Brighthaven
Seraph
It just doesn't make sense to me that I have to throw away months and months of XP on stuff I'm never going to use in order to use the attacks that make up some of the core functionality of clerics and aren't intrinsically more powerful than fighter attacks. Is it really so powerful to use longsword attacks instead of focus attacks (some of which are very good, as has been pointed out) that it would double the work to get to T3?

Am I supposed to take fighter feature feats to get that strength? It just doesn't make any sense, since cleric domains are requirements for the deity weapon attacks.

I would be more okay with it if I thought I was going to get some mileage out of that strength investment. Aside from dabbling in crafting (which would extend the process out about a year), that's just not happening.
Seraph
Cleric of Sarenrae
Brighthaven
Seraph
So I won't be getting tier 3 proficiencies for a few more months, but I'm trying to plan ahead and see exactly what it will take for me to fill my ability score requirements and make that transition. Clerics seem to be uniquely put in a rather vexing situation, and I'd like to determine if this is intended.

There are 3 big proficiencies for T3:
- Armor. Heavy Armor Prof 3 requirements are Strength 20 OR Wisdom 20. This is great, I can do that.
- Implement. Holy Symbol Prof 3 also requires Wisdom 20. Fantastic, works for me.
- Weapon. Heavy Blade Prof 3 requires… Strength 20. This is not so good.

Fighters get to pick dex or strength, their attacks and armor feat feeds it, their feature feat feeds it, it should be the first thing to 20 and they can use it to qualify for all 3 of these proficiencies. Rogues are in the same situation, dex is clearly their choice. Wizards get to do the same thing with intelligence. Sure, every class needs a second attribute determined by their armor feat, but only one of them needs to ever get to 20+.

But now if I want to be a cleric that uses a longsword to use my deity's attacks at T3, I need both 20 Wisdom and 20 Strength. I don't even need 20 strength to buy rank 6 of my cleric longsword attacks, only 18. Obviously level 6 attacks aren't much use without T3 proficiency.

If clerics are only intended to use the Focus, I think that "weapon" needs more support and the deity attacks need to be focused around it. Otherwise, here are my proposals:

1) You just let clerics qualify for everything with wisdom. Open T3 weapon proficiencies and attacks to be achievable with Wisdom 20 just like armor.
2) Open T3 weapon proficiencies to be achievable with 20 Wisdom, but only make cleric attacks gated with Wisdom (that is, weapon attacks you can buy from the Cleric trainer). This limits you somewhat as you can't mix in fighter attacks without building up your strength. Strike of Sacred Strength sets up distressed for Thousand Cuts, and you couldn't do that without strength. This seems fair, since fighters can't use things like Channel Smite.
3) Do some hybrid, where Clerics need a combination of wisdom and strength to get those proficiencies and cleric weapon attacks, forcing some investment but not as much as it is now. Requiring Strength to go to 20 basically doubles the amount of time it will take to get full T3 compared to everyone else.
4) Lower heavy blade proficiency 3 to 18 Strength – or (18 Strength and 20 Wisdom) or (20 Strength), so that clerics who qualify for level 6 cleric weapon attacks can buy the proficiency. 18 is still too high if you ask me, but this is better than nothing. 14 seems fairly reasonable, which is what the Crusader armor feat requires you to have by the time it asks you to have 20 Wisdom.

Sorry that got a bit wordy. It just seems like the system punishes clerics who used deity weapon attacks, and I feel like the attacks are balanced well enough that they don't need a huge XP sink in the form of a "strength tax".
Seraph
Cleric of Sarenrae
Brighthaven
Seraph
Great work, I noticed this the other day. Happy to have the updated and new expendables on there.

I do notice that the new expendables in particular are missing their keywords and some other details. I'm not sure if that's an additional process or something that was just missed?
Seraph
Cleric of Sarenrae
Brighthaven
Seraph
I think Bob is right in that it's hard to say at this point whether they cost too much, and furthermore it's better for them to cost too much than too little.

We definitely don't want every settlement having a full set of +3 buildings a month after the system is introduced. It should be much more gradual, introducing reasonable settlement progression, especially since most players don't qualify for the feats that high-plus buildings would be necessary to support and won't for some time.

After all, settlement building only needs to be done once, and eventually people will reach the point where they no longer have need for T1 recipes just like we didn't for a while until codices.
Seraph
Cleric of Sarenrae
Brighthaven
Seraph
The actual calculations involved in an LOS should be trivial. Tons of similar calculations are done every frame when deciding what to render to your screen. I suspect most of the challenge is in figuring out when and where the calculations should be done and how it affects/interrupts attacks. This game does that whole attack validation period at the start of an attack which might make things a bit different.

For a spell with a cast time of 2.3 seconds, do you need LOS for the whole cast, or just for the instant the ray fires? I'd probably say the latter. Other attacks have speed as well, and a precise instant when the attack actually connects.

For the correct implementation I would probably just take a look at how other MMOs do it and take notes. Can't tab-target to someone you don't have LOS to (but can keep them as your target if they LOS you after you acquire them as a target), can't start a ranged attack against someone you can't see, attack gets interrupted if they move behind cover (although I wouldn't want to lose my Holy Light cast just because there was a tree in the way for 1/4 of a second). In some games if you use a ranged attack on someone in range and then they move out of range during the cast, the attack still hits them; in this one, it interrupts the attack but the animation still completes.
Seraph
Cleric of Sarenrae
Brighthaven
Seraph
It's hard to imagine open world PvP that doesn't favor the blob. I mean, just like in real life, whoever can field the largest, best-equipped army is probably going to win.
Seraph
Cleric of Sarenrae
Brighthaven
Seraph
I think it would be super fun if there were locked chests or if the boss was carrying the 25% lost inventory of people who died in the hex. It would be a cool reward for killing the boss or finding and unlocking the chest (you could even have the boss drop a key to the chest to merge both ideas). It also further incentivizes stealing boss kills from your enemies' monster hexes, since you get some of the stuff that they lost while putting work into the escalation.

That said, the issue of reintroducing all of that stuff which before would have disappeared back into the game is nontrivial. Some kind of limits might be appropriate. Maybe the escalation monsters "use" the stuff over time (consume mats, degrade equipment, and learn consumables and recipes), so if you die right at the end of the escalation you might get almost everything back, but it disappears or degrades over time so if you take several more days to kill the boss it's gone by then. Maybe that's what you were getting at.
Seraph
Cleric of Sarenrae
Brighthaven