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All posts created by Smitty

Smitty
Duffy Swiftshadow
Smitty
@ Cal .. I don’t want standing around to be a thing for either side … do you see the point that for a player sitting at the key board.. it doesn’t matter if you are on attacker duty or defender duty .. you are still standing around ?
What would it take for you as a player to spend your evenings in a hex.. making elf and dwarf towers to determine how many dwarfs it takes to make 4 elves.. because that answer is going to be the highlight of your evening.. if you attack an undefended hex.

But the attacker is rewarded for standing around when nothing happens and the defender is not, stark contrast. That system is designed around controlling territory, the goal is to do so, if no one defends you get the territory and they lose it, if you force them to stand around and you never show up they are not rewarded for it. Spending a few minutes standing around unchallenged and not losing durability or worse whole items (which equates back to coin/time) seems like a pretty damn good trade off if I was trying to capture territory.

Defenders standing around and nothing happening != to attacker standing around and capturing territory. They are not equivalent actions.
Duffy - stop looking at this with your settlement leader hat.. try looking at it as a player only.

My Point is - which I think Bob understands just fine .. is that a player.. the person sitting at the keyboard is doing nothing.. they are r standing in a 6m area until a counter ticks up.. for actual game play it is horrible.. No one wants to stand around doing nothing.( attacker nor defender)
The reason GW put in guards is so defenders don’t have to stand around doing nothing .. Attackers on the other hand still stand around and do nothing ( when no opposition shows up).. From Bobs response I am pretty sure he sees the problem..
“I've been pushing to change this for quite a while so that characters just have to tag in to start earning points, and they keep earning points until an enemy tags in to challenge them. That way, if you kill off the guards and the defenders haven't shown up, you'd have a similar opportunity to do other things nearby while waiting for defenders to show up (might need to stay a little closer since you wouldn't have any guards acting as a buffer, but you'd also have a shorter window to worry about). Just hasn't been a priority yet, especially with the limited holding/outpost warfare going on at this point.”


Your territory control argument is flawed because if you were required to pull guard duty, and no one showed up you successfully defended your pvp window and protected your territory.. Your reward for standing around guarding a holding is you don’t lose it.. defender standing is == attacker standing .. if you are the player that has to do the standing.. With your settlement leader hat on it may not seem that way but the person you are asking to guard a holding or take a holding.. they being asked to do the same thing.
Smitty
Thanks Bob ..
My only reason to constantly bring it up here .. is because im probably one of handful of folks that actually have attacking experience to relate… I just want things to be transparent on both sides, and I don’t think some folks here really get what it is like when you attack structures and no one shows up.

Edit
the limited feuds / player fighting is why i dont think EE11.1 should have any PvP addressed ( possibly meteor hexes being open PvP or something if that is easy..) ..

I would suggest sticking with the things players are actually doing .. get back to PvP later when/ if players actually start using the systems.
Smitty
@ Cal .. I don’t want standing around to be a thing for either side … do you see the point that for a player sitting at the key board.. it doesn’t matter if you are on attacker duty or defender duty .. you are still standing around ?
What would it take for you as a player to spend your evenings in a hex.. making elf and dwarf towers to determine how many dwarfs it takes to make 4 elves.. because that answer is going to be the highlight of your evening.. if you attack an undefended hex.
Smitty
The end result as a player is that you stand around…

So yes as a player i do nothing … The same nothing a defender would be doing if they pulled guard duty and no one showed up… except instead of getting a outpost at the end of the PvP window the defender can say they successfully defended the outpost..

for the person sitting at the key board it is the same thing.. which from what i understood from other post .. guards were included to keep players from standing around doing nothing .. think it was called inactive gameplay or something like that.

This question comes next …

If no one shows up to defend either outpost .. why does the attacker have to wait 24 hours to take the holding.. at least keep they standing around to one day instead of 2 days ..
Smitty
Bob
Yes, we intend to empower players to police player behavior. We just don't want to do that in a way that pushes players to do that policing in a boring way. As such, we want NPC guards to be available to handle the parts that most players wouldn't find very interesting, like standing in one place waiting for an attack that may never come. Those guards may be sufficient to hold off a small attack, but they'll never be sufficient to hold off a reasonably sized group of determined attackers. They'll just be guaranteed to hold those attackers off long enough to allow nearby players to arrive and take part in the fight without feeling guilty about not having been standing there the whole time.
Question on this Bob..

Why require an hour before the feud begins, if the npc guards are meant to slow down an attack long enough for a response force to arrive, shouldn't the hour notification that they are feuded be good enough to know they should guard their holdings?

2nd part..
Why is okay to have an attacker stand around for 15 minutes after guards are dead ticking up something the defender didnt care enough about to defend? Isnt that the same thing as having a defender stand around in the same place doing nothing for x amount of time?
Smitty
Tink!

Was going to respond to Nihimon about being righteous and just .. but now i will just say howdy Tink then add a stab stab!
Smitty
just a guess missing a few

• Bonedancers: Goblins = rogue
• Broken Men: Fighter
• Duergar Slavers: Cleric
• Elemental Rift: Wizard
• Float Any River: cant recall
• Goblin Ghouls: Goblins = rogue.
• Goblin Raid: Goblins = rogue.
• Moloch Cultists: cant recall
• Mordant Spire: - cant recall thought it was cleric
• Nature's Wrath: cleric.
• Razmiran Cultists: not certain.
• Ripping Chains: goblins = rogue
• Skeletal Uprising: Wizard
• Skull-Basher Ogres: fighter (I think)
• Undying Ogg: ogres = fighter (I think. )
• Ustalav Invaders: Fighter.
Smitty
some folks asking why KB and Golgotha were not reconstructed.
Smitty
Bumped ..
Smitty
Bringslite
Smitty,

I can't say for sure why your targets stopped showing up at their holds, but I can guess and I think you can too. It is interesting that they did not cater to your advance and that you are not happy that you had to take a passive holding.

Do you mean that you feel that you have been wronged somehow in those instances? I ask because you have mentioned it several times.
I am just pointing out that the solution for not pulling guard duty(inactive game play I guess is the term GW is using), is contributing to the attackers standing around and doing nothing ( inactive game play)…
I have a good guess why folks stopped showing up. If I was interested in taking things for x reason I would run a company or settlement and would love taking passive stuff
There are 2 aspects to taking a undefended holding..
First my company easily accomplishes their task, no gear lost objective is complete… Yay go team!
What I think you and Duffy are not acknowledging is the actual game play aspect. You see what Bob wrote about inactive game play and wanting to avoid it. If you are feuded and forced to guard something and no one shows up.. you are not going to be happy about that.. even though you successfully defended your PvP window from the feud . ( Your settlement is going to be happy they didn’t lose anything).. but as a player you are going to say that was a horrible way to spend a night on my computer. Now do it 2 nights in a row to take over the hex…

I don’t think I have been wronged (it is the side I chose in the conflict), But I do think this is an issue that needs to be addressed.